Cassius Clay

[Admin.]

In 1810, Cassius Marcellus Clay was born into one of the wealthiest slave-owning families in Kentucky. However, while studying at Yale, he heard the radical abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison speak. It was a powerful experience that seriously challenged the beliefs Cassius was raised with, and set him on the path to embracing abolition.

This prominent son of wealthy slave owners later served three terms in the Kentucky House of Representatives, where his anti-slavery views led to attacks and assassination attempts. The stories of Cassius Clay fighting off assailants sound like the stuff of legend. During a heated public debate, for example, a hired killer fired a bullet into Cassius’ chest… just as Cassius was unsheathing his bowie knife, which took the hit and saved his life. Despite having just taken the impact of a bullet, Cassius tossed the would-be assassin over an embankment… after slicing off his nose and one of his ears. When six men wielding knives and clubs attacked Cassius at a public meeting, he was stabbed in the back… but was still able to end the fight by gutting one of them and causing the rest to flee.

In 1845, Cassius Clay began publishing an anti-slavery newspaper called True American. He installed armored doors at the printing press, as well as two cannons. It didn’t stop a mob of 60 men from storming the press, and forcing the publication to relocate to a free state (even as Cassius himself remained in Kentucky.)

A decade and a half later, Cassius Clay would organize the defense unit that protected the White House when the Civil War erupted. He served as minister to Russia during the war, where he helped to secure Russia’s support for the Union. When President Lincoln recalled him from Russia in 1862 to serve as a general in the Union Army, Cassius publicly refused the position unless the President issued a proclamation freeing all slaves under Confederate control… which Lincoln did later that same year.

Nine years after Cassius Clay’s death in 1903, a man named Herman Heaton Clay – whose ancestors had been enslaved by the Clay family – named his son after the knife-wielding abolitionist. The Cassius Clay born in 1912 would later name HIS son Cassius Clay, Jr. – better known to the world as Muhammad Ali.

This story is part of a project to mobilize White people for racial justice, by providing examples of what White antiracism has looked like throughout U.S. history.

Read the vision statement here:

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[Lokmar]

Other than ruining it with the last sentence, I found this to be a great read!

 

[Reggie_Essent]

What is "racial justice" and why do white people need to be mobilized for it?

 

[Dove]

That was abolition.

Not anti racism. Anti racism is fucking racism, Admin. Using a white Christian Republican abolitionist as an anti racist prop? Really?

 

[Joe]

I thought this was the 'Cassius Clay' you were referring to:

....od thing is = I really liked Sonny Liston.

Too bad he had ta pummle him like that.

irl Liston was said to be a nice guy who got in with the wrong crowd.

 

[The Prowler]

I really liked Sonny Liston.

How old are you, Senile @Joe?

They fought in 1964 and 1965. To "really like" a fighter, I would expect that a person would be at least in his mid teens. Say 16. So that would put you at a minimum of 73 years old.

Am I close?

 

[X]

I really liked Sonny Liston.

How old are you, Senile @Joe?

They fought in 1964 and 1965. To "really like" a fighter, I would expect that a person would be at least in his mid teens. Say 16. So that would put you at a minimum of 73 years old.

Am I close?

hey fuckface

sherriff here

keep yer fucking HURT in meltdown asshole

 

[Seamajor]

I never missed a Mohamed Ali boxing match. Watched on Closed circuit TV for many.

 

[Levon]

Other than ruining it with the last sentence, I found this to be a great read!

Yeah, a very interesting character. He was part of the larger Clay family that produced a shit ton of politicians and influential Americans.
The article is almost verbatim taken from Wikipedia, except without the last couple of sentences where some bunch of milennials are thinking they invented the study of history as well as the art of "mobilization." We should not let them take credit for the history of the Clay family, since they clearly didn't do the research themselves.

Cassius Marcellus Clay the politician was a bad ass, and also unfortunately a bit of a skirt chaser who lost a lot of his cred late in life for getting involved with a female minor, and other exploits. I give him his due, but it'd be easier if he'd died younger.


Oh and @Dove ... nowhere in the article is there a mention of Clay's religious persuasion, so please stop troweling your own stuff onto the convo. It ain't helpful.

 

[Dove]

Levon.....describe the Abolition movement. I know quite a bit about this topic so, excuse me for giving info beyond thing short c/p thing.

 

[Levon]

Levon.....describe the Abolition movement. I know quite a bit about this topic so, excuse me for giving info beyond thing short c/p thing.

As you must know, since you know "quite a bit" about the movement, that "describing" it would indeed be a fool's errand... especially here.

So, no thank you. Possibly you understand abolitionists IN GENERAL to have been Bible thumpers but that isn't what you said. What you said was that Cassius Marcellus Clay the politician was "a Christian" and what I said is that you have no basis for the claim, particularly since very little about the way he conducted his life was consistent with such a thing.

It's my belief that Clay began to endorse abolition (actually, incremental abolition) after hearing a speech in 1832 by William Lloyd Garrison, an early abolitionist who indeed DID claim to be Christian, while Clay was a student at Yale College. He did not, however, embrace Garrison's vision of immediate and uncompensated emancipation.

Hope that helps.

 

[Murdy]

Dovey the incredible dipshit strikes again with her white supremacist ideologies and Big antics of trying to turn this into some sort of trial.

this ain’t Oprah, you dumb as fuck slack from the sticks… go back and finish high school already

 

[Murdy]

I thought this was the 'Cassius Clay' you were referring to:

....od thing is = I really liked Sonny Liston.

Too bad he had ta pummle him like that.

irl Liston was said to be a nice guy who got in with the wrong crowd.

me too…but I’m a big boxing fan… always have been lol

 

[Seamajor]

Boxing became an art with this person.

 

[Bastard Factory]

Ali lived behind his left jab. Silky smooth moves and amazing hand speed which led to his knockout power.
Pure technician imo.

Until he met that left hook of the brawling energizer bunny...

​

 

[Dove]

Levon.....describe the Abolition movement. I know quite a bit about this topic so, excuse me for giving info beyond thing short c/p thing.

As you must know, since you know "quite a bit" about the movement, that "describing" it would indeed be a fool's errand... especially here.

So, no thank you. Possibly you understand abolitionists IN GENERAL to have been Bible thumpers but that isn't what you said. What you said was that Cassius Marcellus Clay the politician was "a Christian" and what I said is that you have no basis for the claim, particularly since very little about the way he conducted his life was consistent with such a thing.

It's my belief that Clay began to endorse abolition (actually, incremental abolition) after hearing a speech in 1832 by William Lloyd Garrison, an early abolitionist who indeed DID claim to be Christian, while Clay was a student at Yale College. He did not, however, embrace Garrison's vision of immediate and uncompensated emancipation.

Hope that helps.

Abolitionists were a Christian movement that formed in opposition to incrementalism. They were directly agitating and calling out the incrementalism.

Not sure why you claim I have "no basis" for my claim when I certainly DO have a basis for it. Also I didnt say they were "bible thumpers", I said they were Christian's.

What basis do you have for claiming that? None. It's the trendy thing today to rewrite history and be hateful and diminishing towards beliefs that actually accomplished something positive in our history.

 

[Murdy]

Boxing became an art with this person.

He paved the way for other greats such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Tyson….

But we can’t forget about the boxer Hurricane that Bob Dylan wrote the protest song about ~ which is compiled acts of racism and racial profiling that led to a false trial and conviction…

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[Murdy]

Interestingly enough… Cassius Clay the boxer eventually changed his name

“Cassius Clay is a slave name. I didn't choose it, and I don't want it. I am Muhammad Ali, a free name — it means beloved of God, and I insist people use it when people speak to me.” In proclaiming this, Ali rejected two things imposed upon him by centuries of white imperialism: his religion and name.”

He did this after befriending Malcolm
X during the 1960s when there was no legal requirement to do so.

 

[Levon]

Levon.....describe the Abolition movement. I know quite a bit about this topic so, excuse me for giving info beyond thing short c/p thing.

As you must know, since you know "quite a bit" about the movement, that "describing" it would indeed be a fool's errand... especially here.

So, no thank you. Possibly you understand abolitionists IN GENERAL to have been Bible thumpers but that isn't what you said. What you said was that Cassius Marcellus Clay the politician was "a Christian" and what I said is that you have no basis for the claim, particularly since very little about the way he conducted his life was consistent with such a thing.

It's my belief that Clay began to endorse abolition (actually, incremental abolition) after hearing a speech in 1832 by William Lloyd Garrison, an early abolitionist who indeed DID claim to be Christian, while Clay was a student at Yale College. He did not, however, embrace Garrison's vision of immediate and uncompensated emancipation.

Hope that helps.

Abolitionists were a Christian movement that formed in opposition to incrementalism. They were directly agitating and calling out the incrementalism.

Not sure why you claim I have "no basis" for my claim when I certainly DO have a basis for it. Also I didnt say they were "bible thumpers", I said they were Christian's.

What basis do you have for claiming that? None. It's the trendy thing today to rewrite history and be hateful and diminishing towards beliefs that actually accomplished something positive in our history.

I stated my basis in the previous post. Read it again. The guy wasn't a Christian by any known measure. You might have to read Smiley's biography of him, or Carlee's biography, in order to satisfy yourself on this point. Both are linked in the Wikipedia article under "further reading." Let me know if you still think I have no basis for my comment.

 

[Murdy]

Levon.....describe the Abolition movement. I know quite a bit about this topic so, excuse me for giving info beyond thing short c/p thing.

As you must know, since you know "quite a bit" about the movement, that "describing" it would indeed be a fool's errand... especially here.

So, no thank you. Possibly you understand abolitionists IN GENERAL to have been Bible thumpers but that isn't what you said. What you said was that Cassius Marcellus Clay the politician was "a Christian" and what I said is that you have no basis for the claim, particularly since very little about the way he conducted his life was consistent with such a thing.

It's my belief that Clay began to endorse abolition (actually, incremental abolition) after hearing a speech in 1832 by William Lloyd Garrison, an early abolitionist who indeed DID claim to be Christian, while Clay was a student at Yale College. He did not, however, embrace Garrison's vision of immediate and uncompensated emancipation.

Hope that helps.

Abolitionists were a Christian movement that formed in opposition to incrementalism. They were directly agitating and calling out the incrementalism.

Not sure why you claim I have "no basis" for my claim when I certainly DO have a basis for it. Also I didnt say they were "bible thumpers", I said they were Christian's.

What basis do you have for claiming that? None. It's the trendy thing today to rewrite history and be hateful and diminishing towards beliefs that actually accomplished something positive in our history.

I stated my basis in the previous post. Read it again. The guy wasn't a Christian by any known measure. You might have to read Smiley's biography of him, or Carlee's biography, in order to satisfy yourself on this point. Both are linked in the Wikipedia article under "further reading." Let me know if you still think I have no basis for my comment.

don’t bother ~ the comment was directed at me and my assertion that most of the slave owning aristocratic males who started this country and the racist politicians who supported it are in fact Christian. The KKK is Christian.

she can’t get around this ~ so she will flail like a paraplegic who just farted in her wheelchair for eternity like this

 

[Joe]

Boxing became an art with this person.

Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali introduced a dynamic in boxing that future boxers would try to emulate - the moving or dancing boxer. Before that boxers were usually very static & the winner who often emerged was the hardest puncher. So Ali was a very strategic pugilist who understood the importance of stamina to wear down bigger stronger opponents like the fierce and seemingly unstoppable George Foreman.

 

[The Prowler]

Ali lived behind his left jab. Silky smooth moves and amazing hand speed which led to his knockout power.
Pure technician imo.

Until he met that left hook of the brawling energizer bunny...

​

Styles make fights. Frazier had the fighting style that was the answer for Ali. Even in the two that he lost, it was close and both fighters were never really the same after.

I will say that I think Frazier was closer to his prime, and Ali was past his prime (which probably would have been in one of the three years that he was forced out of boxing).

 

[The Prowler]

He paved the way for other greats such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Tyson….

Leonard was a Welterweight and there were many earlier Welterweights with good hand speed and footwork.

Tyson fought nothing like Ali and was probably not even Top 5 in his era. He was protected like crazy and mainly fought second rate fighters. Don King did a great job fooling almost everyone. That said, I was a big fan and he was great for a small heavyweight.

Ali had incredible footwork and hand speed and head movement...for a heavyweight.

 

[The Prowler]

Interestingly enough… Cassius Clay the boxer eventually changed his name

“Cassius Clay is a slave name. I didn't choose it, and I don't want it. I am Muhammad Ali, a free name — it means beloved of God, and I insist people use it when people speak to me.” In proclaiming this, Ali rejected two things imposed upon him by centuries of white imperialism: his religion and name.”

He did this after befriending Malcolm
X during the 1960s when there was no legal requirement to do so.

"when there was no legal requirement to do so"

Legal require to do what?!!?!?

Befriend Malcolm X? Change your name?

 

[The Prowler]

Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali introduced a dynamic in boxing that future boxers would try to emulate - the moving or dancing boxer. Before that boxers were usually very static & the winner who often emerged was the hardest puncher. So Ali was a very strategic pugilist who understood the importance of stamina to wear down bigger stronger opponents like the fierce and seemingly unstoppable George Foreman.

I disagree.

It was there before Ali. He did it as a heavyweight, though. And, to this day, no other heavyweight has been able to emulate Ali.

Here, this is before Ali. Are you saying Robinson did not move or "dance"?