Again Together To School

[Q]

In 1992 we had a change in the primary schooling system in the Netherlands. Before that time there were special schools for kids that could not keep up on a "normal" school. Only the at least average children could go to a normal school, the others went to special schools, with smaller groups of children in the classroom.

In 1992 that changed and all kids -except for the very "special cases"- should go to a normal school. In case the kid was less intelligent for example, an extra amount of money would be made available (government money) to the school to be used for this specific kid. A so called "backpack".

The idea is that alle kids school go to a "normal school", except the cases where this is impossible.

I am wondering how this is done in other countries... Hoe is this done in your country?

 

[Swamp-Duck]

Schools for kids that have been excluded cos of their behaviour, you normally find these kids are special needs. IMO most of them should never have been in mainstream school in the first place, so putting them there don’t work, should be in the special school in the first place, the system is backwards if you ask me, how many classes have been disrupted and kids learning time lost before they got rid of the window licker ?

 

[Q]

Schools for kids that have been excluded cos of their behaviour, you normally find these kids are special needs. IMO most of them should never have been in mainstream school in the first place, so putting them there don’t work, should be in the special school in the first place, the system is backwards if you ask me, how many classes have been disrupted and kids learning time lost before they got rid of the window licker ?

Window licker will go immediately to the special needs school. For him it will be clear enough he will not last on the normal school, but there are cases where a person with downsyndrom (but rather normal) fiished primary school. And yes, this takes away time of the "normal" kids...

I currently know of a girl in the 2nd group (second year) of primary school. She is actually dumb (sorry, hard words, but she really is). She was accepted on the normal school, because the special school did not have a spot for her yet. Now her mother wants to keep her on the normal school, because she sees what the special school is doing to her other 3 kids... (5 in total, 2 on the normal school and they ask a lot of time from the teachers on that normal school).

 

[Q]

@LotusBud Do you have some insights on this subject? Since you have a background in teaching....

 

[LotusBud]

In 1992 we had a change in the primary schooling system in the Netherlands. Before that time there were special schools for kids that could not keep up on a "normal" school. Only the at least average children could go to a normal school, the others went to special schools, with smaller groups of children in the classroom.

In 1992 that changed and all kids -except for the very "special cases"- should go to a normal school. In case the kid was less intelligent for example, an extra amount of money would be made available (government money) to the school to be used for this specific kid. A so called "backpack".

The idea is that alle kids school go to a "normal school", except the cases where this is impossible.

I am wondering how this is done in other countries... Hoe is this done in your country?

In the US, they try to mainstream as many kids as possible, often with special education teachers at the school, and some special classes for kids with developmental, etc issues. There are some schools strictly for special needs kids, but there are not many. Then you have the schools for kids who are failing -- these students are not necessarily special needs kids, but they have missed a lot of school, gotten consistently low grades, etc. This is usually at the high school level. In the US, all of this varies by state.

 

[Q]

In 1992 we had a change in the primary schooling system in the Netherlands. Before that time there were special schools for kids that could not keep up on a "normal" school. Only the at least average children could go to a normal school, the others went to special schools, with smaller groups of children in the classroom.

In 1992 that changed and all kids -except for the very "special cases"- should go to a normal school. In case the kid was less intelligent for example, an extra amount of money would be made available (government money) to the school to be used for this specific kid. A so called "backpack".

The idea is that alle kids school go to a "normal school", except the cases where this is impossible.

I am wondering how this is done in other countries... Hoe is this done in your country?

In the US, they try to mainstream as many kids as possible, often with special education teachers at the school, and some special classes for kids with developmental, etc issues. There are some schools strictly for special needs kids, but there are not many. Then you have the schools for kids who are failing -- these students are not necessarily special needs kids, but they have missed a lot of school, gotten consistently low grades, etc. This is usually at the high school level. In the US, all of this varies by state.

Do you have any insight how it is done in Portugal?

 

[LotusBud]

I haven't asked, but I have a couple of friends in education. Next time I see them I'll ask. We just went into state of emergency, so it may be awhile, though.

 

[Q]

I haven't asked, but I have a couple of friends in education. Next time I see them I'll ask. We just went into state of emergency, so it may be awhile, though.

Thanks! I'm not in a hurry :)

What I am missing in all countries is how to deal with the kids that are more intelligent than others. Here we hardly have anything for those kids, except for "rewarding" them with extra work because they finish the work too soon. In some cases the kids have different work, that should provide more of a "challenge", but in most cases this is not really quality work.
For example:
For math: 25 times calculating a time period from hours:minutes:seconds into seconds. The smart kid gets bored after doing this 3 times... Or by "hiding" the calculations in story that is made difficult on purpose, sometimes even by using incorrect Dutch.
The other example is even worse: the teacher gave the kids a few questions regarding the middle ages, around these questions they had to create a presentation. They could use the internet (this was at home during the lockdown some months ago).
Within 5 minutes the kid doing the work found the site the teacher had used, this contained all the questions and answers.

 

[Q]

I currently know of a girl in the 2nd group (second year) of primary school. She is actually dumb (sorry, hard words, but she really is). She was accepted on the normal school, because the special school did not have a spot for her yet. Now her mother wants to keep her on the normal school, because she sees what the special school is doing to her other 3 kids... (5 in total, 2 on the normal school and they ask a lot of time from the teachers on that normal school).

Replying to myself, but that is because in the meantime we know the girl is going to leave this school next year. The teachers agreed that she will not be able to handle it in "group 3" (the grade where most kids learn how to read, write, math, etc.)
During the time this little girl was in the normal school, the teachers had to spend lot of extra time on her. Time they could not spend on the other kids.

One of her siblings has been tested to see why he still did not manage to keep up on the special needs school. His IQ was 66. He will probably go to a school with even more individual help.

And the one still in the normal school will remain there, but she also takes a lot of teacher-time.

We have also created it hard for teachers and our kids here :(

 

[Breakfall]

I currently know of a girl in the 2nd group (second year) of primary school. She is actually dumb (sorry, hard words, but she really is). She was accepted on the normal school, because the special school did not have a spot for her yet. Now her mother wants to keep her on the normal school, because she sees what the special school is doing to her other 3 kids... (5 in total, 2 on the normal school and they ask a lot of time from the teachers on that normal school).

Replying to myself, but that is because in the meantime we know the girl is going to leave this school next year. The teachers agreed that she will not be able to handle it in "group 3" (the grade where most kids learn how to read, write, math, etc.)
During the time this little girl was in the normal school, the teachers had to spend lot of extra time on her. Time they could not spend on the other kids.

One of her siblings has been tested to see why he still did not manage to keep up on the special needs school. His IQ was 66. He will probably go to a school with even more individual help.

And the one still in the normal school will remain there, but she also takes a lot of teacher-time.

We have also created it hard for teachers and our kids here :(

Kiddo...I understand why you are talking to yourself and I realise that you’re also a victim in a flawed educational system.

It’s hard to separate kids from small rural towns because of government funding. In those situations, everyone does their best to accommodate those with special needs or those with a below average IQ. In bigger towns or cities where funding isn’t an issue...keep them separated. Distraction and disruption hinders educational progress for all concerned.

And please consider the web for further insight you individual...

 

[LotusBud]

I haven't asked, but I have a couple of friends in education. Next time I see them I'll ask. We just went into state of emergency, so it may be awhile, though.

Thanks! I'm not in a hurry :)

What I am missing in all countries is how to deal with the kids that are more intelligent than others. Here we hardly have anything for those kids, except for "rewarding" them with extra work because they finish the work too soon. In some cases the kids have different work, that should provide more of a "challenge", but in most cases this is not really quality work.
For example:
For math: 25 times calculating a time period from hours:minutes:seconds into seconds. The smart kid gets bored after doing this 3 times... Or by "hiding" the calculations in story that is made difficult on purpose, sometimes even by using incorrect Dutch.
The other example is even worse: the teacher gave the kids a few questions regarding the middle ages, around these questions they had to create a presentation. They could use the internet (this was at home during the lockdown some months ago).
Within 5 minutes the kid doing the work found the site the teacher had used, this contained all the questions and answers.

It's always a tough issue in education. Not only are some way smarter than others, but there are so many different learning styles. As a teacher, I found one valuable thing in putting students of different levels together was that, if you put students into small groups, and put a smart one in each group, the smart one can teach others in the group. Teaching is VERY educational. It helps the student-teacher to understand more, too, so I think that can be a good situation for smart students. There are always variables, though.