Electric Cars

Oerdin

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Lower maintain sounds appealing though the long charge times and few charging options doesn't sound so great. Then there is the facts that because electric vehicles weight so much more you need special heavy weight rate tires which cost significantly more and wear out much faster (again due to the weight of all those batteries).

Lastly, California periodically issues do not charge orders for electric cars when the grid is over stretched. We will need a ton more power plants if everyone goes electric yet our one party controlled state government is removing power plants instead of adding them. The extremist wing buts in charge of CA truly are fucktards; just mental children dumber than aidsman.
 

Tad Cooper

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Two thoughts:

1. Most of our electricity in the USA is generated by coal. So charging up your EV is really just more consumption of fossil fuel.

2. Most electric cars have automatic transmissions. I HATE automatic transmissions. I love to drive a stick. So until they come up with a manual tranny EV, no thanks.
 

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Most EVs are direct drive and don't even have a transmission.
:WrongAgain:


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Electric Vehicle Motors spin at about 15K RPM compared to about 7500 +/- for a hi performance gas engine, and 0'Dork believes EV wheels are spinning at 15K rpm, while your driving through that School Zone.
 
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The Scoundrel

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It's a bit of a moot point. 96% of Americans drive automatic cars anyway so it should make no difference. You WILL drive an EV in the future whether you like it or not because FOSSIL FUELS ARE FINITE

Those here who spend their time arguing that renewable energy sources are so difficult and that technology isn't capable of running our infastructure forget this one word. YET.

If you are not 100% behind using what renewables technology we currently have available then you're just shortening the time we have left having the life we are so accustomed to.

I think research into super clean, natural alternative fuels will lag behind our needs for maybe a couple of hundred years (and let's not forget we've only had 'power' for about 200 years now.) Longer than it will take to burn up fossil fuel.

We already have the answer although it's not the best. We have to go nuclear in a big way for the foreseeable future. Not without risk but there is no other way at the moment.

Continued research into solar, wind and hydro electric should see us self sufficient with what the cosmos throws at us by 2300ad or so. Energy storage systems will improve dramatically within that time allowing us to harness this clean power.

It's the old adage. 'If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem'

Where do you stand?
 

Scooter

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My store has two EV charging stations in the parking lot. I see some of the same cars there a couple times per week and they sit there for over an hour. Yeah, it's free electricity for your car but you have to sit in a grocery store parking lot for almost two hours? No Thanks. And there's a Sheetz convenience store off the interstate that has Tesla charging stations. I wonder how long that takes them. It doesn't seem convenient in any way.
 

Oerdin

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It's a bit of a moot point. 96% of Americans drive automatic cars anyway so it should make no difference. You WILL drive an EV in the future whether you like it or not because FOSSIL FUELS ARE FINITE

Those here who spend their time arguing that renewable energy sources are so difficult and that technology isn't capable of running our infastructure forget this one word. YET.

If you are not 100% behind using what renewables technology we currently have available then you're just shortening the time we have left having the life we are so accustomed to.

I think research into super clean, natural alternative fuels will lag behind our needs for maybe a couple of hundred years (and let's not forget we've only had 'power' for about 200 years now.) Longer than it will take to burn up fossil fuel.

We already have the answer although it's not the best. We have to go nuclear in a big way for the foreseeable future. Not without risk but there is no other way at the moment.

Continued research into solar, wind and hydro electric should see us self sufficient with what the cosmos throws at us by 2300ad or so. Energy storage systems will improve dramatically within that time allowing us to harness this clean power.

It's the old adage. 'If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem'

Where do you stand?

Wind and solar can never and will never provide reliable base load power. We need massively more nuclear and hydropower stations and where possible tibal power. We will need 5-10 times more electric power generation then we have today just to switch to electric cars and intermitten sources will always be supplementary and not base load.

Batteries can help but that will be very long term. Next supply chains for oil and natural gas are complicated enough but the supply chains for electric cars and batteries is going to be orders of magnitude more complicated. That is going to be very difficult in a world were globalism is disappearing. Increases in shipping costs, the US losing interest in being the world's policeman, and the rise of regional powers who will be interested in disrupting trade as a power play against opponents is all going to dramatically decrease global trade. So how do you get all those inputs for electric cars, batteries, and semiconductors?
 

The Scoundrel

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So how do you get all those inputs for electric cars, batteries, and semiconductors?

Of necessity is how bud. When the only other option is 'or not' then things will happen.

Let me ask. Do you envisage a world returned to an agricultural entirety with mud hut dwelling villagers rising with the dawn and working till the sun goes down?

That's the only other option. So why don't you use a proportion of that expensive modern education you were lucky enough to be born into to mind hive an answer instead of nay saying like a pointless compass
 

Murdy

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I’m not sold on Tesla. My cousin bought one last year and has already traded it in for a Subaru. She was pulled over on the side of the road and missed most of a family baby shower charging the damn thing.

I do like that Tesla has cameras at every angle of the vehicle, which will come in handy for a he said, she said collision situation.

I like what they look like… but the charging inconvenience has already been proven a pain in the ass.
 

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I was at a gas station in St Augustine Florida last week which also doubled as an Arbys


They had an electric charging station. I noticed an EV sitting there waiting for the persons in front of them finish charging their vehicles. Me and my lady went inside, had a leisurely lunch at Arbys and then went next door for Coffee.

When we came outside about 45 minutes later that SAME EV was still in the SAME spot waiting for their opportunity to charge their vehicle

No way. Until electric cars can have their roofs built of the same material as solar panels they just aren't feasible
 

Murdy

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I was at a gas station in St Augustine Florida last week which also doubled as an Arbys


They had an electric charging station. I noticed an EV sitting there waiting for the persons in front of them finish charging their vehicles. Me and my lady went inside, had a leisurely lunch at Arbys and then went next door for Coffee.

When we came outside about 45 minutes later that SAME EV was still in the SAME spot waiting for their opportunity to charge their vehicle

No way. Until electric cars can have their roofs built of the same material as solar panels they just aren't feasible

The Tesla solar panels are superior to every other product on the market right now. We are planning on installing those when we do the roof, but we will get them at wholesale since my best friend and her brothers run the largest solar company in the area… Tesla is their highest selling panel this summer.
 
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TheHaze

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EV cars are the future - - - - - -


green-dodge-challenger.jpg
 

Oerdin

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So how do you get all those inputs for electric cars, batteries, and semiconductors?

Of necessity is how bud. When the only other option is 'or not' then things will happen.

Let me ask. Do you envisage a world returned to an agricultural entirety with mud hut dwelling villagers rising with the dawn and working till the sun goes down?

That's the only other option. So why don't you use a proportion of that expensive modern education you were lucky enough to be born into to mind hive an answer instead of nay saying like a pointless compass

No, not in most of the world and especially not in North America. That said, the world is going to be a lot more inflationary, there will be a lot less capital available, and there will be food shortages especially in the developing world and east Asia. I do question if China will survive as a unified state.

BTW demographic collapse, the lose of access to international markets, and the lose of inputs for China is going to really fuck China hard. Africa too and even countries like Brizil are going to have trouble with access to fertilizers. Brazil is a major food exporter but extremely reliant on imported inputs to produce those goods and its transport systems suck ass. It all has to be trucked into a few ports because of geography (steep mountains next to the sea which can't accommodate railroads). That will get much more expensive side with oil at $200 a barrel.
 

Oerdin

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Honestly, I fully expect future U.S. Presidents to be populist and not globalist and that means one of them is very likely to activate the 2015 law which Obama signed into law which allows the President to ban crude oil exports. That means oil in the US at around $70 a barrel and every where else around $200 a barrel especially with Russia, Iran, and Venezuela sanctioned. It will take 5-10 years to accomplish but the US will reindustrialize as simply the cheapest place to manufacture energy intensive goods. Or rather North America will.
 

Oerdin

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I was at a gas station in St Augustine Florida last week which also doubled as an Arbys


They had an electric charging station. I noticed an EV sitting there waiting for the persons in front of them finish charging their vehicles. Me and my lady went inside, had a leisurely lunch at Arbys and then went next door for Coffee.

When we came outside about 45 minutes later that SAME EV was still in the SAME spot waiting for their opportunity to charge their vehicle

No way. Until electric cars can have their roofs built of the same material as solar panels they just aren't feasible

The Tesla solar panels are superior to every other product on the market right now. We are planning on installing those when we do the roof, but we will get them at wholesale since my best friend and her brothers run the largest solar company in the area… Tesla is their highest selling panel this summer.

Tesla Solar panels aren't even in the top 10 for best efficiency. They do have a great combo of price to efficiency and their solar tile roofing looks set to be amazing (though not highly efficient) from a cost standpoint but they aren't even close to being the best based upon efficiency. Durability and ease of installation along with low cost is where Tesla solar roof will really shine.

Tesla will have to unfuck its poor customer service sometime though as customers dislike having to wait 6 months longer than originally promised for their new roof then not being able to speak to a real human to fix installation issues after install.

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Oerdin

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I’m not sold on Tesla. My cousin bought one last year and has already traded it in for a Subaru. She was pulled over on the side of the road and missed most of a family baby shower charging the damn thing.

I do like that Tesla has cameras at every angle of the vehicle, which will come in handy for a he said, she said collision situation.

I like what they look like… but the charging inconvenience has already been proven a pain in the ass.

My brother in law and his spouse bought a Model 3 the moment they could get their hands on it. They liked it but as it was a single motor and had some quality issues they decided to trade it in for a Model Y duel motor late last year. They seem very happy with the Y they bought as well as the build out of the charging network in Las Vegas as well as along the I15 freeway as the frequently come down to San Diego to visit family.

I honestly will wait until it is a proven tech and they have a million mile battery which won't blow up. In 2018 my dad leased it Chevy Volt because they were fucking giving them away trying to reach the number needed to comply with California regulations. Seriously, the lease was zero down and only $79 per month with 15,000 miles a year. He said if they are giving it away he'd try one. After he passed away I drove it for a while before giving it back to GM and it was OK but the 50 mile EV range was limiting, it wasn't that nice (obviously an econo box) though the three cylinder gasoline powered ranger extending motor was nice to have. It was obviously nothing more than a compliance car though.
 
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1Holliday1

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What do you think there future is and would you by one ?

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The first electric car was made in 1832.

They are still being improved and developed 190 years later.
I'd say their future is bright as a 100 watt bulb.

In any case, fossil fuels will soon enough be a thing of the past,
.either through wisdom,
or the collapse of civilization they cause.
 

Oerdin

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Fossil fuels will have an extremely long tail. Extremely long. Not just for the plastics and lubricants electric cars will need but because 75% of planet Earth will not be suitable for electric cars. Shit, several billion people still use wood or coal to cook with in 2022. Kerosene is an unaffordable dream and that tech comes from the 1840's.
 

Oerdin

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Watch of Peter Zeihan because very little of the Earth gets a pay back on solar (meaning it generates more income compared to the cost to construct it). Most of those places also are not near population centers so loses due to resistance in power lines make it economically infeasible. Same goes for wind. The US, Australia, and South Africa are one of the few exceptions.

The rest? Nuclear, hydro, tidal, maybe limited geothermal, and fossil fuels will be it. The idiocy of the greens strangling oil and natural gas will cause huge numbers to switch back to coal a their only option. We are seeing Germany do this right now despite having the most solar of any nation on a per capita basis. Why? Because outside of three days in August solar just doesn't produce much in northern Europe. Fact. Germany needs to copy France and go massively into nuclear but the idiot greens want to shut down all nuclear in Germany. They are suicidal fools.

Now tell me what countries like Peru, Burma, Indonesia, and the Central African Republic are going to do. You policies are making pollution worse not better.
 

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Fossil fuels will have an extremely long tail. Extremely long. Not just for the plastics and lubricants electric cars will need but because 75% of planet Earth will not be suitable for electric cars. Shit, several billion people still use wood or coal to cook with in 2022. Kerosene is an unaffordable dream and that tech comes from the 1840's.
You are arguing from the pov that their will be no improvements in either energy production, or energy storage, lots of static that Elon and others may be on the verge of the next level of battery technology....if so, that could def. shake things up.
 

Oerdin

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Fact: Just battery tech alone needs about 15-20 global supply chains and anyone of them goes down then the whole damn thing stops getting produced. Similar numbers for semi-conductors. Just look how the Ukraine war has caused shortages of rare but absolutely necessary gases and will hugely impact semi-cinductor production globally.

Times that buy dozens of items. Electric is far more expensive and far more fragile and I doubt a demoralizing world with capital constraints will be able to deliver outside of a select lucky and wealthy few areas.
 

Oerdin

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Next, to build a food fuel power plant only needs about 10% of the life time costs up front because fuel to operate it accounts for so much. For so called green (which are not really green) power like wind and solar around 70% of the costs are upfront capital costs. That makes it much, much less affordable for the vast amount of countries in the world even if they are in the rare areas where those are financially viable. Tell me how a country like Zambia affords this?

They will remain on fossil fuels because they literally have mo other choice.
 

Oerdin

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They are still being improved and developed 190 years later.
I'd say their future is bright as a 100 watt bulb.

Did you not understand the primary message in the above statement?

Watch of Peter Zeihan because very little of the Earth gets a pay back on solar

You are a not very intelligent utopian thinker who thinks he can hand wave away the details. Hint: You can't and outside of the 1st world (and even there they will have great difficulty) it will not work. BTW most emissions globally are no longer happening in the 1st world.

For most countries, when you artificially make oil and natural gas unaffordable they are going to switch back to coal as their only affordable option. Net more emissions will result.