Ivanka needs to answer for her crimes, too, imo

Murdy

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Spirituality is for hypocrites who disdain religion for being ignorant, antiscientific brain slop -- only to engage in ignorant, antiscientific brain slop themselves.

Yes.

I vehemently disagree. Religion is a practice and some who practice never find faith or spirituality. Spirituality provides meaning to your life and allows a deeper connection with others and everything around you.

You can’t be both atheist and agnostic. You either believe that there is no higher power or you are indifferent to its existence.
 

Neil B. Formi

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I vehemently disagree. Religion is a practice and some who practice do not have faith or spirituality. Spirituality provides meaning to your life and allows a deeper connection with others and everything around you.

You can’t be both atheist and agnostic. You either believe that there is no higher power or you are indifferent to its existence.
Agnosticism is the admission that one doesn't know whether a higher power exists or not. If one is honest about agnosticism, that defaults to atheism.

Furthermore, I am a consistent atheist: I don't disdain one religion or another because of which religion it is. I harbor contempt for any belief system which is built on claims and predictions taken on blind faith, defended by dogma and sophistry, and promoted by any combination of social pressure and legislated coercion.

That applies to Christianity, Islam, 'New Age' schema, climate alarmism, transgenderism, Communism, Socialism, the notion that Pauly Shore is funny, and anything else which fits the three aforenamed parameters.
 
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Murdy

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Agnosticism is the admission that one doesn't know whether a higher power exists or not. If one is honest about agnosticism, that defaults to atheism.

Furthermore, I am a consistent atheist: I don't disdain one religion or another because of which religion it is. I disdain any belief system which is built on claims and predictions taken on blind faith, defended by dogma and sophistry.

That applies to Christianity, Islam, 'New Age' schema, climate alarmism, transgenderism, Communism, Socialism, the notion that Pauly Shore is funny, and anything else which fits the two aforenamed parameters.

You can’t just lump the agnostics in with the atheists by claiming if they were honest with themselves they would adapt an atheist perspective. A religious person would argue that anyone can find faith at any point during their lifetime. Their indifference means they remain up for grabs by either side imho.

The desire for answering the unknown is hardwired in our DNA and the foundation of religion, which is as old as mankind and the quest to answer “why?” Religion is the foundation of philosophy and science.

Clearly, you’ve had a negative experience with religion at some point in your life based on this post.
 

Neil B. Formi

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You can’t just lump the agnostics in with the atheists by claiming if they were honest with themselves they would adapt an atheist perspective. A religious person would argue that anyone can find faith at any point during their lifetime. Their indifference means they remain up for grabs by either side imho.
Yes, a religious person would argue that. A rationalist would argue thus: Acknowledging a possibility, one defaults to the negative position until the positive position is supported by evidence.

So, until evidence is presented, an agnostic would default to disbelief. Disbelief isn't the same as aversion. "I don't believe it is" isn't necessarily equal to, "I believe it isn't."
The desire for answering the unknown is hardwired in our DNA and the foundation of religion, which is as old as mankind and the quest to answer “why?” Religion is the foundation of philosophy and science.
Religion is a cop-out from that question, at best, and a hijacking of that human tendency more often.

"God works in mysterious ways; by the way, here's a list of things God says you have to do, and here's another list of things you're not supposed to do. Pay no mind to the fact that all the things you're supposed to do benefit my friends and I. Oh, and if you do any of the things on the other list, don't worry -- you can pay me and God will give you a pass."
Clearly, you’ve had a negative experience with religion at some point in your life based on this post.
Not at all; chiefly, I owe that to an excellent upbringing which included a classical education in the works of Thomas Paine, Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Epictetus, Socrates, and others.
 

Murdy

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Yes, a religious person would argue that. A rationalist would argue thus: Acknowledging a possibility, one defaults to the negative position until the positive position is supported by evidence.

So, until evidence is presented, an agnostic would default to disbelief. Disbelief isn't the same as aversion. "I don't believe it is" isn't necessarily equal to, "I believe it isn't."

Religion is a cop-out from that question, at best, and a hijacking of that human tendency more often.

"God works in mysterious ways; by the way, here's a list of things God says you have to do, and here's another list of things you're not supposed to do. Pay no mind to the fact that all the things you're supposed to do benefit my friends and I. Oh, and if you do any of the things on the other list, don't worry -- you can pay me and God will give you a pass."

Not at all; chiefly, I owe that to an excellent upbringing which included a classical education in the works of Thomas Paine, Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Epictetus, Socrates, and others.

The “why” I was referring to was going way way back to the Mesoamerican polytheistic societies, which their gods represented nature and the natural world, creation, fertility, food, death and the underworld, trade and excess or entertainment. They believed they needed to repay their debts to the gods to ensure survival and made human, animal, and precious goods sacrifices to
honor them. It was the answer to why is my wife not getting pregnant, why is there drought, why am I having a bad harvest?

Whereas the Native American Indians worshiped the “master spirit” and had daily practices like waking up to honor the sun, expressing gratitude for food, walking barefoot, and paying attention to animals. They had spiritual ceremonies, vision quests, and healing ceremonies.

Fast forward to now..

The Christian right should be denounced as heretics. Their leaders have acculturated the worst aspects of American imperialism, capitalism, chauvinism, violence and bigotry in the name of Jesus.

So, I agree with you here about religion.
 

Neil B. Formi

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The “why” I was referring to was going way way back to the Mesoamerican polytheistic societies, which their gods represented nature and the natural world, creation, fertility, food, death and the underworld, trade and excess or entertainment. They believed they needed to repay their debts to the gods to ensure survival and made human, animal, and precious goods sacrifices to
honor them. It was the answer to why is my wife not getting pregnant, why is there drought, why am I having a bad harvest?

Whereas the Native American Indians worshiped the “master spirit” and had daily practices like waking up to honor the sun, expressing gratitude for food, walking barefoot, and paying attention to animals. They had spiritual ceremonies, vision quests, and healing ceremonies.
Those are examples of what might be termed either pantheism or perhaps animism. Deism is rather similar, as is Cosmotheism. In colloquial terms: "Creator embodying creation." Personally, I find those far more palatable even if only because, though they are equally as unverifiable and unfalsifiable as monotheism, they are (with exceptions such as those Mesoamerican systems which practice human sacrifice...) non-belligerent.
Fast forward to now..

The Christian right should be denounced as heretics. Their leaders have acculturated the worst aspects of American imperialism, capitalism, chauvinism, violence and bigotry in the name of Jesus.

So, I agree with you here about religion.
True, but let's not single out just one: Christianity, beyond its fundamental anti-science ignorance, is also intrusive and belligerently viral -- that is, it is spread like a mind-virus to vulnerable populations. Historically, this has meant (comparatively) technologically undeveloped or underdeveloped societies. Today, it means the dependent and the emotionally vulnerable.

But it's not the only virus of its type. Beyond the need for an explanation of our perception of an intelligence beyond our own, humans are driven by an evolutionary need for tribal identity. When our species roamed the undeveloped Earth as hunter-gatherers, tribal affiliation was vital to basic survival. We've never shed that need.

Christianity, Islam, Judaism (to a lesser extent due to its more insular nature), Mormonism, Scientology, along with any and every -ism going, is founded upon the exploitation of the human need to belong to the modern equivalent of a 'tribe'.

And every system which operates on that basis tends toward programming of its members, along with tutoring them in dogmatic rejection of any information which challenges the righteousness of their 'tribe'.

Intellect-suspending defense along with social virality as an offensive strategy.

That's the combination I oppose. I don't care what kind of absurd bullshit people believe in, until they start trying to pressure other people to conform to it. That's where an innocuous set of beliefs turns into a threat. And that's when I object to it.
 
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Reggie_Essent

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Agnosticism is the admission that one doesn't know whether a higher power exists or not. If one is honest about agnosticism, that defaults to atheism.

Furthermore, I am a consistent atheist: I don't disdain one religion or another because of which religion it is. I harbor contempt for any belief system which is built on claims and predictions taken on blind faith, defended by dogma and sophistry, and promoted by any combination of social pressure and legislated coercion.

That applies to Christianity, Islam, 'New Age' schema, climate alarmism, transgenderism, Communism, Socialism, the notion that Pauly Shore is funny, and anything else which fits the three aforenamed parameters.

That is an interesting belief system you have there.