Things need to change, 40 hr work week, etc.

[DDT]

It's a whole lot of things contributing to this. One of the biggest was the standardized shipping container, or sea can.

That had more impact on 'globalization' than people realize. A fucking truck driver came up with that idea also, the bastard.

Now we can have cheap shit easily and cheaply transported from Bangledesh, where they get paid a few pennies per hour to make your Nike shoes, to our docks cheaply and easily where those Nike shoes cost you $200.

 

[Joe]

Trades is a good way to go, since I just paid a plumber almost Attorney rates!

Unfortunately our educational system doesn't guide students down this path very well. They focus more on social justice and other left wing bullshit, than preparing a kid for real work for real money.

Met a plumber recently.

Told me he destroyed his lungs through bacterial infections and now he needs an oxygen tank just to breathe and function

the don't pay 'em well fer nothin'.

 

[DDT]

Met a plumber recently.

Told me he destroyed his lungs through bacterial infections and now he needs an oxygen tank just to breathe and function

the don't pay 'em well fer nothin'.

Stop making up stories, Joe. If he needs an oxygen tank, it's from something other than installing a new toilet or hot water tank...

 

[Frood]

It's a whole lot of things contributing to this. One of the biggest was the standardized shipping container, or sea can.

That had more impact on 'globalization' than people realize. A fucking truck driver came up with that idea also, the bastard.

Now we can have cheap shit easily and cheaply transported from Bangledesh, where they get paid a few pennies per hour to make your Nike shoes, to our docks cheaply and easily where those Nike shoes cost you $200.

Containers don't rate any more than standardised pallet sizes...or ocean freighters.

Without standards, we never would have had mass produced anything, from the Colt to the Model T...

Refrigerators, washing machines, and everything else we take for granted.

 

[DDT]

The standardized container changed things. $2,000 for a fully loaded 20 footer shipped to me from half way around the world (pre Covid)...

It cost me more to move a few hundred miles away...

 

[The Prowler]

Maybe this will stimulate some thought.

We could try to classify different forms of production this way:

1) Basic Needs - things like food, shelter, basic clothing

2) Life Enhancing Goods - things like entertainment products, a fancy house, designer clothing; products you own

3) Life Enhancing Services - things like theaters, gyms, swimming pools, vacation resorts; services you experience


Given that we are so much more productive, and if we maintain the workforce and a 40 hour work week, we should be able to produce a great proportion of Life Enhancing Goods and Life Enhancing Services. In other words, our Basic Needs are met with less labour, so any excess labour can produce Life Enhancing Goods and Services.

Do we see any problems with producing more Life Enhancing Goods or Life Enhancing Services?

I am going to play a concerned SJW leftist that we have on this board and try to answer my own question.

Response from Concerned Virtue Signalling SJW:

Well TP, as you know I'm very concerned about our planet. So with every thought that I have, I consider "What would this mean for the environment?" (You know about Global Warming, right?)

So 1) Basic Needs are no problem. I want all people to live comfortably and be happy. Except Dovey.

Now 2) Life Enhancing Goods is something I thought about. If people buy a lot of things that they don't really need, that could be bad for the environment. A bigger house means more heating and cooling, which takes energy. I think entertainment devices are okay (I just can't get enough Beyoncé!!), but only if you use them. It's just wasteful to get a lot of stuff that you end up never using. Buying designer clothes is probably not a bad thing. I guess it depends if you use them. I've decided that when people buy clothes, they should wear them and not move onto the next fashion fad so quickly. All those carbon emissions that are produced in the textile industry...really, if we could cut back on our clothing purchases, that would be good for the environment. I think I'll wear my clothes until they are worn out, and not just follow the latest style. Because it is better for the environment.

The more I think about 2) Life Enhancing Goods, the more I realize that some is okay, but too much is wasteful and very bad for the environment.

3) Life Enhancing Services seem to be the way we should go. Theaters will make me appear sophisticated (you know I went to college and studied Art History, right?), and gyms and swimming pools sound healthy. I'm not sure about vacation resorts, though. Usually people drive a long way or, even worse, they fly. That burns a lot of fossil fuels. And, really, one or two trips a year is plenty. More than that and we will see diminishing returns - less fun for the money. People should be able to find some good things to do close to their own home. I think focusing on Life Enhancing Services that are close to home and don't produce a lot of pollution and dreaded carbon emissions would be smart. Does this mean I can't sit in my car in the Starbucks Drive-Thru, idling for 10 minutes, just for a cup of coffee?

So, to answer your question, "Do we see any problems with producing more Life Enhancing Goods or Life Enhancing Services?", my answer is "Yes".

I see problems. Virtually all of these Life Enhancing Goods and Life Enhancing Services, some more than others, will have a negative environmental impact.

But we have so many workers who need to work. And they work 40 hours a week. So that means they will continue to produce the same amount of Life Enhancing Goods and Life Enhancing Services. What can we do so they make less, so we can pollute less, so we can save the planet!?!?!?!?

 

[Breakfall]

I don’t want to take the piss...but in life one needs to use their head.

 

[Frood]

The standardized container changed things. $2,000 for a fully loaded 20 footer shipped to me from half way around the world (pre Covid)...

It cost me more to move a few hundred miles away...

All the manpower and/or forklifts plus battery charging and upkeep for loading and unloading is from the shipper and receiver. In most cases, the trucking costs are worn by the shipper and receiver.... with the licencing costs, rego costs, insurance costs, compliance costs....

All the 3PL and other storage costs are worn by these same parties....

Lego stacking containers on glorified barges is an easy biz....

Buoyancy is always the preferred way...

 

[The Prowler]

It's a whole lot of things contributing to this. One of the biggest was the standardized shipping container, or sea can.

That had more impact on 'globalization' than people realize. A fucking truck driver came up with that idea also, the bastard.

Now we can have cheap shit easily and cheaply transported from Bangledesh, where they get paid a few pennies per hour to make your Nike shoes, to our docks cheaply and easily where those Nike shoes cost you $200.

Do not blame efficiency.

If you are going to do something, it is always best to be efficient.

But all the ocean freighter crossing the Pacific is not good. People do not agree on global warming, but I think most people agree that killing all the sea life is not a good thing.

 

[Blazor]

I do think we make too much junk. Shit we dont need.

I also think our dollar doesnt go very far these days. Soon it will seem like 1 person will need to work 2 jobs to survive alone.

 

[Dove]

We have had a 40 hour work week for a hundred years or more.

I do not know the exact numbers, but I am pretty sure that:

- 100 years ago the average family had more children
- 100 years ago it was common to have just the man of the family work while the woman looked after the house

Since that time we have developed greater technology that allows every person to be more productive.


I am going to make some comparisons and observations. Any numbers will be based on averages.

From this chart:

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In 1920, women had an average of 3.17 children each. In 2018, it was 1.73.

So I will use a family in 1920 of a couple with 3 children. And in 2020, a couple with 2 children.

In 1920, a man could work 40 hours in a week and could provide for 5 people. 1 person provides for 5.

In 2020, we commonly have both the husband and wife working 40 hours per week and only providing for 4 people. 1 person provides for 2.

Now, given that we are far more productive than 100 years ago, every worker is making a lot more "stuff". "Stuff" can either be goods or services.

I think conservatively we can estimate that a worker in 2020 is on average twice as efficient as a worker in 1920, with the assistance of technology and technological advancements.

What 1920 showed us is that 1 person can provide for 5 people. So in 2020, with twice the efficiency, 1 worker could provide for 10 people. But what we have is 1 worker providing for only 2 people.

Now we know that people live longer in 2020. So let's say people live 1.5x as long. So in 2020 we can make this correction and say that 1 worker could provide for 6.7 people.

But we still are left with 3.3x the necessary production (1 worker could provide for 6.7 people, but is providing for only 2 people).

That is a lot of excess production.

Now excess production is not necessarily a bad thing. Once we take care of our basic needs, we can then produce goods and services that enhance our quality of life.

So let's look at some of these goods and services that we make to enhance the quality of our lives.

- Electronics, gadgets, etc. that have a short life span

- Traveling, vacations, etc.

- Remodeling, renovating our homes

- Fast food, convenience food, frozen dinners, etc.

I will stop there.


Does anyone see some emerging problems with this model of the 40 hour work week in 2020?

 

[Dove]

I do think we make too much junk. Shit we dont need.

I also think our dollar doesnt go very far these days. Soon it will seem like 1 person will need to work 2 jobs to survive alone.

Some already do.

 

[The Prowler]

I do think we make too much junk. Shit we dont need.

Right. We are a wasteful, wasteful society.

So many people claim to care about the environment, but then waste materials, waste human labour, waste energy....

Hypocrites. But nobody calls them out - not in a meaningful way. They think they can just go to a "Greta" march and that lets them off the hook.

I also think our dollar doesnt go very far these days. Soon it will seem like 1 person will need to work 2 jobs to survive alone.

We have too many workers for the amount of work we need done. So companies can pay shit wages. A high supply of workers willing to work for shit wages in shit jobs. I cannot blame companies for taking advantage.

Imagine that the standard work week was 32 hours and that is what workers actually worked in a week - no more than 32 hours. I know that would a difficult thing to implement and it would be difficult to enforce, etc.. Any major change does present challenges. But just imagine it could be done. A lot of businesses would require more new hires. A business would need 1.25% of their previous workforce to maintain their productivity. That would pull a lot of people out of the shit jobs to fill some "decent" jobs. By lessening the supply of these workers, the shit jobs might start to demand higher pay. Hopefully a good percentage of the shit jobs would disappear.

I know this would be very complicated. I know that the economy might actually shrink. I know we have all been led to believe that would be a bad thing, but it would be fine. It would actually be better, IMO. Cut the waste. Cut the excess.

We have enough manpower to fill our needs with a 32 hour work week. We could cut back on making shit we do not need. Better for the environment. Better for our mental health.

Are we worried that there will be way less fast food? Shit, with an extra 8 hours a week, maybe people could learn to cook for themselves. Maybe this is my own bias showing, because I eat at fast food places about once every 5 years, if that. I do not like the stuff. Eventually the market would decide what businesses are necessary. There might be only 1 in 5 McPukes left standing when a Big Mac costs $15, but grocery stores will still be there. We would start to realize that while grocery stores are essential, fast food really is not.

Referring back to my first post, it makes no sense that we have so much more production power now, yet we have so many people either in, or fearing, financial turmoil.

Our problem is that we are working within a system that was developed 100 years ago. It is not a system that makes good sense anymore.

It is why I get a little tired of hearing bitching about minimum wage and other problems within this system. The system is outdated and broken. Especially when the bitching is by the same people who purport to be concerned about the environment. This system is bad for the environment. But they avoid the important discussions and fight for $15 an hour.

 

[Dove]

I actually really hate when I see a beautiful peaceful area start to get "developed" and it's just more strip malls and fast food restaurants.