American workers are finally telling the 1% to shove it

[The Prowler]

We need to lower costs.

No raises or tax breaks is going to change anything in any meaningful way.

I also want everyone to pay LESS taxes. Our government overspends like motherfuckers and it's ridiculous, wasteful and harms us all.

Basically, the wish of every conservative is for the government to run as efficiently as possible.

 

[Joe]

There are sure a Lotta scrooges here.

Glad I'm not one.

Fuckin' Joe tips $2 at Starbucks and feels like he is making a difference.

Hahahaha!!!!

Well, if 100 people in a shift drop in some change, yes it helps.

You can't believe, a loonie or twonie puts a smile on their faces, Prower.

And I think most people don't tip.

so I make an effort to give them something.

Joe if they all divided up that tip cup(because they do) they MIGHT get 20 bucks each.

Not even enough for a full tank of gas.

You know where the "the right" and left actually differ here? Leftists want to give raised to workers. Rightists want to bring down the costs of living so that raises will actually MEAN something.

Wages are not the problem. The fucking skyrocketing cost of living is the problem. And I dont for the life of me understand why this is such an impossible argument.

Does it somehow NOT make sense that we need to lower costs? Raising wages will NOT help. Tip jars wont help. In fact raising wages will make the problem WORSE.

I swear to god.....if we keep on this path we will see milk at 50 bucks a gallon and lefties will be arguing for a 100 bucks an hour minimum and people will be more dirt poor than ever.

Actually Dovey, a major flaw in governments which keep expecting businesses to pay a higher minimum wage is that they often fail to give a corresponsing tax break to the business.

If the government hikes the minimum wage, they should cut the business's taxes.

So it becomes a revenue neutral mechanism.

I agree with you on that part. They can't expect the business to give something without getting something back. That is how mom and pop businesses start to disappear and all you have left are MacDonald's or Starbucks. So there has to be a balance.

We need to lower costs.

No raises or tax breaks is going to change anything in any meaningful way.

I also want everyone to pay LESS taxes. Our government overspends like motherfuckers and it's ridiculous, wasteful and harms us all.

Government here has given US movie studios huge tax breaks and concessions and the industry is thriving.

We have a lot of Americans working in the movie industry here or come to study film and get jobs afterwards in Vancouver.

So I support tax breaks if they give something back and willing to set down roots here.

 

[Dove]

We need to lower costs.

No raises or tax breaks is going to change anything in any meaningful way.

I also want everyone to pay LESS taxes. Our government overspends like motherfuckers and it's ridiculous, wasteful and harms us all.

Basically, the wish of every conservative is for the government to run as efficiently as possible.

And to the best interest of the people. And....to stay in their damn lane.

 

[Joe]

When I was in my early 20s I rented an upper level apartment in downtown Rochester MI on University DR with 2 bedrooms. It was 725 a month. Today that same apartment is 1,250 a month. Costs of everything are just higher.

...cripes is that all, Dovey?

We passed that $725 mark where I live 20 years ago.

And that was for a bachelor or 1 BR

Be lucky to find a 1 BR apartment in Vancouver $2000 or less or $1500 US.

2 BR are at least $3,000 or around $2,300 USD per month.

Well Joe I'm 41 today.....so that about 20 years ago lol.

Happy Birthday, Dovey!

May you make it long and sweet!

:Drunk:

...do you need a new thread to get the celbrations going?

 

[The Prowler]

Actually Prowler I was going to respond to the question I asked you before...

...which is how to boost the worker's wages.

But I gotta run go out soon.

When I come back later this evening, I'll elaborate on what you failed to.

Oh goody!

Reading the ramblings of a peabrained retard sounds very entertaining.

I am at the edge of my seat.

 

[The Prowler]

Government here has given US movie studios huge tax breaks and concessions and the industry is thriving.

Yeah, when the government recognizes an industry is not profitable enough and decides to give it monetary incentives, that industry tends to do better.

But that is at the expense of all the industries that has to make up for the deficit, you stooge.

 

[The Prowler]

Happy Birthday, Dovey!

May you make it long and sweet!

:Drunk:

...do you need a new thread to get the celbrations going?

She did not say it was her birthday today, you retard.

 

[Dove]

When I was in my early 20s I rented an upper level apartment in downtown Rochester MI on University DR with 2 bedrooms. It was 725 a month. Today that same apartment is 1,250 a month. Costs of everything are just higher.

...cripes is that all, Dovey?

We passed that $725 mark where I live 20 years ago.

And that was for a bachelor or 1 BR

Be lucky to find a 1 BR apartment in Vancouver $2000 or less or $1500 US.

2 BR are at least $3,000 or around $2,300 USD per month.

Well Joe I'm 41 today.....so that about 20 years ago lol.

Happy Birthday, Dovey!

May you make it long and sweet!

:Drunk:

...do you need a new thread to get the celbrations going?

I didnt mean my birthday was today LOL. I meant as of today. Bahahaha.

My birthday is in August lol.

 

[The Prowler]

I didnt mean my birthday was today LOL. I meant as of today. Bahahaha.

Joe has communication issues.

The guy is the most confused fuckwit I have ever come across....

 

[Joe]

I didnt mean my birthday was today LOL. I meant as of today. Bahahaha.

Joe has communication issues.

The guy is the most confused fuckwit I have ever come across....

...and this is you..




A real life version of Mr Potter.

'Mr. Prowler'...suits you.

A Neoconservative Shrill. ..er I mean Shill.

 

[The Prowler]

Joe is delusional.

 

[Joe]

Joe is delusional.

.You're rather mean spirited.

...And you're welcome.

 

[Joe]

There are sure a Lotta scrooges here.

Glad I'm not one.

Fuckin' Joe tips $2 at Starbucks and feels like he is making a difference.

Hahahaha!!!!

Well, if 100 people in a shift drop in some change, yes it helps.

You can't believe, a loonie or twonie puts a smile on their faces, Prower.

And I think most people don't tip.

so I make an effort to give them something.

Joe if they all divided up that tip cup(because they do) they MIGHT get 20 bucks each.

Not even enough for a full tank of gas.

You know where the "the right" and left actually differ here? Leftists want to give raised to workers. Rightists want to bring down the costs of living so that raises will actually MEAN something.

Wages are not the problem. The fucking skyrocketing cost of living is the problem. And I dont for the life of me understand why this is such an impossible argument.

Does it somehow NOT make sense that we need to lower costs? Raising wages will NOT help. Tip jars wont help. In fact raising wages will make the problem WORSE.

I swear to god.....if we keep on this path we will see milk at 50 bucks a gallon and lefties will be arguing for a 100 bucks an hour minimum and people will be more dirt poor than ever.

Actually Dovey, a major flaw in governments which keep expecting businesses to pay a higher minimum wage is that they often fail to give a corresponsing tax break to the business.

If the government hikes the minimum wage, they should cut the business's taxes.

So it becomes a revenue neutral mechanism.

I agree with you on that part. They can't expect the business to give something without getting something back. That is how mom and pop businesses start to disappear and all you have left are MacDonald's or Starbucks. So there has to be a balance.

We need to lower costs.

No raises or tax breaks is going to change anything in any meaningful way.

I also want everyone to pay LESS taxes. Our government overspends like motherfuckers and it's ridiculous, wasteful and harms us all.

Oh I just took that idea from a Conservative Republican Mike Huckabee. As governor he raised the minimum wage slightly but offset that increase by providing the business owner with a tax cut.

I thought that was very smart and fair.

Give something to one but don't make the other poorer. Business owners need to make money too.

 

[Dove]

There are sure a Lotta scrooges here.

Glad I'm not one.

Fuckin' Joe tips $2 at Starbucks and feels like he is making a difference.

Hahahaha!!!!

Well, if 100 people in a shift drop in some change, yes it helps.

You can't believe, a loonie or twonie puts a smile on their faces, Prower.

And I think most people don't tip.

so I make an effort to give them something.

Joe if they all divided up that tip cup(because they do) they MIGHT get 20 bucks each.

Not even enough for a full tank of gas.

You know where the "the right" and left actually differ here? Leftists want to give raised to workers. Rightists want to bring down the costs of living so that raises will actually MEAN something.

Wages are not the problem. The fucking skyrocketing cost of living is the problem. And I dont for the life of me understand why this is such an impossible argument.

Does it somehow NOT make sense that we need to lower costs? Raising wages will NOT help. Tip jars wont help. In fact raising wages will make the problem WORSE.

I swear to god.....if we keep on this path we will see milk at 50 bucks a gallon and lefties will be arguing for a 100 bucks an hour minimum and people will be more dirt poor than ever.

Actually Dovey, a major flaw in governments which keep expecting businesses to pay a higher minimum wage is that they often fail to give a corresponsing tax break to the business.

If the government hikes the minimum wage, they should cut the business's taxes.

So it becomes a revenue neutral mechanism.

I agree with you on that part. They can't expect the business to give something without getting something back. That is how mom and pop businesses start to disappear and all you have left are MacDonald's or Starbucks. So there has to be a balance.

We need to lower costs.

No raises or tax breaks is going to change anything in any meaningful way.

I also want everyone to pay LESS taxes. Our government overspends like motherfuckers and it's ridiculous, wasteful and harms us all.

Oh I just took that idea from a Conservative Republican Mike Huckabee. As governor he raised the minimum wage slightly but offset that increase by providing the business owner with a tax cut.

I thought that was very smart and fair.

Give something to one but don't make the other poorer. Business owners need to make money too.

That's nice and all but costs really need to be lowered.

Why is that such a bad thing?

 

[Joe]

There are sure a Lotta scrooges here.

Glad I'm not one.

Fuckin' Joe tips $2 at Starbucks and feels like he is making a difference.

Hahahaha!!!!

Well, if 100 people in a shift drop in some change, yes it helps.

You can't believe, a loonie or twonie puts a smile on their faces, Prower.

And I think most people don't tip.

so I make an effort to give them something.

Joe if they all divided up that tip cup(because they do) they MIGHT get 20 bucks each.

Not even enough for a full tank of gas.

You know where the "the right" and left actually differ here? Leftists want to give raised to workers. Rightists want to bring down the costs of living so that raises will actually MEAN something.

Wages are not the problem. The fucking skyrocketing cost of living is the problem. And I dont for the life of me understand why this is such an impossible argument.

Does it somehow NOT make sense that we need to lower costs? Raising wages will NOT help. Tip jars wont help. In fact raising wages will make the problem WORSE.

I swear to god.....if we keep on this path we will see milk at 50 bucks a gallon and lefties will be arguing for a 100 bucks an hour minimum and people will be more dirt poor than ever.

Actually Dovey, a major flaw in governments which keep expecting businesses to pay a higher minimum wage is that they often fail to give a corresponsing tax break to the business.

If the government hikes the minimum wage, they should cut the business's taxes.

So it becomes a revenue neutral mechanism.

I agree with you on that part. They can't expect the business to give something without getting something back. That is how mom and pop businesses start to disappear and all you have left are MacDonald's or Starbucks. So there has to be a balance.

We need to lower costs.

No raises or tax breaks is going to change anything in any meaningful way.

I also want everyone to pay LESS taxes. Our government overspends like motherfuckers and it's ridiculous, wasteful and harms us all.

Oh I just took that idea from a Conservative Republican Mike Huckabee. As governor he raised the minimum wage slightly but offset that increase by providing the business owner with a tax cut.

I thought that was very smart and fair.

Give something to one but don't make the other poorer. Business owners need to make money too.

That's nice and all but costs really need to be lowered.

Why is that such a bad thing?

But inflation is here to stay cuz governments everywhere spend too much Dovey. Trump increased the US National debt and so did Biden.

Canada and Europe destroyed their balance sheets fighting the Pandemic. So everyone printed more paper money.

I think it's all denominated in US dollars anyways and tied to the US Fed. Even foreign countries depend on the USD so it can only mean more inflation for everyone.

 

[Joe]

Since you never answered the question I'll provide some possible solutions:

1. Provide workers the tools they need to start small low risk part time businesses. Ie side hustles gigs to supplement their incomes.

2. More companies should should allow employees to set aside funds for future education and retraining such as Canadian Tire. They have an education fund for many of their workers and in fact don't encourage their retail employees to work more than 5 years but pursue higher education after they are done with their jobs there.

3. Allow and encourage more employees to buy shares in publicly traded companies they work for so they have a stake in them. They could even hold these shares long after they quit those jobs too.

..anyways just some ideas that might take a bit of the load off the employer and transfer some of the responsibility on to the employee.

I think #1 was encouraged by the Conservative leader of Canada. To make more people small business owners.

Actually think he has a point.

Liberal/Socialit idea of a guaranteed income is unrealistic and will probably bankrupt us all eventually.

The Challenge

Why not just show some integrity and try to back up your words, Joe? Give an example of me showing no compassion for hardworking people. You made the claim. Back it up.

The Failure

....well then Prowler, what do you propose to boost the standard of living for many workers, particularly those at the low end of the wage scale?

What is YOUR Solution?

Maybe you have one that I'm not aware of.

But so far...you haven't stated what it is.

so I have no inkling what it is.

Tell us...impart your wisdom kindness and compassion on the rest of us.

Then perhaps others will think of you differently, in a better light.

But until you do & you keep making personal attacks on me and others, I'm under the impression you just want to keep the status quo and don't offer any alternatives to help others.

So...prove me wrong & let us know what you think might help these workers.

Joe, you have shown that you lack the intellect to discuss much simpler topics. Did you really think I would spend the time and energy to dig deep into something like this?

I showed compassion for the working class when I stated my opinion that something needs to be done to alleviate the widening gap between the middle and upper class:

The gap between upper and middle class is widening. Something needs to be done, but it is much more complicated than what this guy is presenting.

I also stated quite clearly that I think it is a complex problem when we have college grads doing work that high school students are qualified to handle:

This touches on a problem...

Some people are getting an education and they are not qualified for anything but a job at McPukes.

It used to be a job for kids in high school. Now college grads are working there and they expect to be paid a living wage.

It is a complex problem.

I further went on to try to elaborate on some of the changes we are seeing due to advancements in technology and the difficulties that they present:

The entire system is broken. A 40 hour work week makes no sense with the technological advancements we have made. This has caused an excess of workers. With an excess of workers, jobs are in high demand and companies can pay less. People blame the companies, but their goal is to make profit. The middle class is being squeezed down into the lower class.

There are less good paying blue collar jobs like manufacturing jobs because of automation. That should be a good thing, but instead of using those workers in new, innovative ways, we have taken them and put them into jobs like working at McPukes - jobs that used to be filled by teenagers.

I am not even touching on the fact that 40 years ago people with a little less than average intelligence were steered into factory jobs and they were satisfied - even happy - but now, because there are less factory jobs, they are steered into college programs like Liberal Arts programs and when they graduate and wind up doing menial labour they resent it. A large percentage of the population being whiny and disgruntled is not a good thing. See: ANTIFA.

It is a complex problem. If you pay McPuke workers more, it will end up coming out of the customer's pockets. Those are the pockets of the low and middle class. It is self-defeating. If and when the fast food industry shrinks, it will be the lower class jobs that are lost.

The problem is not as simple as just paying fast food employees $15/hour. That will change nothing in the big picture and we are dealing with big picture problems.

So your entire claim that I have not shown compassion is fucking insanely ridiculous.

I actually gave it some real thought. I know this is not the place to have an in-depth discussion. I know that if any decent points are made, some idiot like The Leaker or you will stumble in and send everything off on a tangent. But I did make a bit of an effort to try to explain why I think this is a very complex issue.

You, on the other hand, were intellectually lazy (big surprise there) and offered no original insight whatsoever. The points you made and questions you asked were what I would expect from a 15 year old teenager.

But you win the SJW Merit Badge on this one, Joe.

"Increase minimum wage!! Allow tips!! I tip $2 at Starbucks and they love me for it!!!"

What a fuckin' hero.

 

[The Prowler]

Since you never answered the question I'll provide some possible solutions:

1. Provide workers the tools they need to start small low risk part time businesses. Ie side hustles gigs to supplement their incomes.

Employees should not have to work more than 40 hours per week. The goal should be to make a full time job adequate to provide a decent standard of living.

2. More companies should should allow employees to set aside funds for future education and retraining such as Canadian Tire. They have an education fund for many of their workers and in fact don't encourage their retail employees to work more than 5 years but pursue higher education after they are done with their jobs there.

"allow employees to set aside funds"

Nothing is stopping any employee of any company from setting aside money for anything they want. Already.

3. Allow and encourage more employees to buy shares in publicly traded companies they work for so they have a stake in them. They could even hold these shares long after they quit those jobs too.

Nothing is stopping any employee of any company from buying any publicly traded stock. Already.

 

[Joe]

Since you never answered the question I'll provide some possible solutions:

1. Provide workers the tools they need to start small low risk part time businesses. Ie side hustles gigs to supplement their incomes.

Employees should not have to work more than 40 hours per week. The goal should be to make a full time job adequate to provide a decent standard of living.

2. More companies should should allow employees to set aside funds for future education and retraining such as Canadian Tire. They have an education fund for many of their workers and in fact don't encourage their retail employees to work more than 5 years but pursue higher education after they are done with their jobs there.

"allow employees to set aside funds"

Nothing is stopping any employee of any company from setting aside money for anything they want. Already.

3. Allow and encourage more employees to buy shares in publicly traded companies they work for so they have a stake in them. They could even hold these shares long after they quit those jobs too.

Nothing is stopping any employee of any company from buying any publicly traded stock. Already.

Canadian Tire sets aside a portion of the wages of young retail employees after they are finished with the company so they have an education fund waiting. I believe the company sets a limit on how many years they can stay there. You generally don't see too many workers over 30 there.

Many larger companies provide shares as compensation for higher salaried employees or to purchase stock at lower rates. Ie Google, Microsoft.

So this option should be provided for lower salaried ones as well. It shouldn't be a one way street for the companies where they aren't similarly compensated.

 

[The Prowler]

Canadian Tire sets aside a portion of the wages of young retail employees after they are finished with the company so they have an education fund waiting. I believe the company sets a limit on how many years they can stay there. You generally don't see too many workers over 30 there.

Okay, they are encouraging young employees to get educated.

How does that boost the standard of living for low wage workers? A plan to get some low wage workers into better paying jobs (i.e. different jobs) does not eliminate the low wage jobs.

Many larger companies provide shares as compensation for higher salaried employees or to purchase stock at lower rates. Ie Google, Microsoft.

Yeah, some compensation packages can get pretty complex.

So this option should be provided for lower salaried ones as well. It shouldn't be a one way street for the companies where they aren't similarly compensated.

That is up to the company.

Companies try to make money. When they provide incentives to employees, it is to attract good employees and compete with other companies - it is not out of some altruistic obligation they feel to society.

I mean, your idea is basically the same as this idea: "Pay them more."

 

[Joe]

Canadian Tire sets aside a portion of the wages of young retail employees after they are finished with the company so they have an education fund waiting. I believe the company sets a limit on how many years they can stay there. You generally don't see too many workers over 30 there.

Okay, they are encouraging young employees to get educated.

How does that boost the standard of living for low wage workers? A plan to get some low wage workers into better paying jobs (i.e. different jobs) does not eliminate the low wage jobs.

Many larger companies provide shares as compensation for higher salaried employees or to purchase stock at lower rates. Ie Google, Microsoft.

Yeah, some compensation packages can get pretty complex.

So this option should be provided for lower salaried ones as well. It shouldn't be a one way street for the companies where they aren't similarly compensated.

That is up to the company.

Companies try to make money. When they provide incentives to employees, it is to attract good employees and compete with other companies - it is not out of some altruistic obligation they feel to society.

I mean, your idea is basically the same as this idea: "Pay them more."

Well...if the company doesn't have the money, or its earnings are down (quite possible during the Pandemic) then other alternatives than raising wages & compromising it's finances may be more suitable.

I did notice that many small businesses closed down permanently after the minimum wage rose sharply here. And that was before the Pandemic. Some real good shops shut down a result.

So governments have to be careful about jacking the min wage up too much and too fast. I think small businesses like mom and pop operations don't have the money.

That's why I thought a tax cut for every mw rise is appropriate for smaller businesses.

 

[The Prowler]

I do not think these little pissy bandaid fixes are the answer, Joe.

 

[DDT]

Business is a complex thing. There are so many variables to take into account, that it's impossible to offer a solution that would please everyone.

 

[Joe]

I do not think these little pissy bandaid fixes are the answer, Joe.

Yet..I see the problem of do gooder governments demanding the small business raise the minimum wage too much and they don't give them anything back for that added expense. So the business closes down.

We lost a lot of good businesses when the mw went up too fast for them. So the government has to give them something back if they want these businesses to stay open.

 

[DDT]

Yet..I see the problem of do gooder governments demanding the small business raise the minimum wage too much and they don't give them anything back for that added expense. So the business closes down.

We lost a lot of good businesses when the mw went up too fast for them. So the government has to give them something back if they want these businesses to stay open.

When dealing with a localized economy, minimum wage raises make no difference to a business owner, since all other businesses in the region have to pay that same wage also, or are supposed to. It's a cost that simply gets passed on to the customer.

Small business owners that complain about minimum wage are ones that would've failed anyhow, even if the wage here remained at $8.00/Hour.

 

[The Prowler]

Yet..I see the problem of do gooder governments demanding the small business raise the minimum wage too much and they don't give them anything back for that added expense. So the business closes down.

We lost a lot of good businesses when the mw went up too fast for them. So the government has to give them something back if they want these businesses to stay open.

When dealing with a localized economy, minimum wage raises make no difference to a business owner, since all other businesses in the region have to pay that same wage also, or are supposed to. It's a cost that simply gets passed on to the customer.

Small business owners that complain about minimum wage are ones that would've failed anyhow, even if the wage here remained at $8.00/Hour.

I agree.

As far as minimum wage goes, it is an even playing field because businesses of all sizes have the same conditions.

Since we are talking about minimum wage, I assume we are talking about retail stores or restaurants, right?

One big reason small businesses have a rough time is that many customers nowadaze prioritize price over service. It is tough for a small business to complete with big box stores when they have to price match. And for most products, there is no need for the expertise a small business owner might provide because people can do their own research on the Internet.

The little specialty shops are a dying breed.

And society is not better for it.

 

[Lokmar]

Minimum wage should have been connected to the consumer price index 50 years ago.

 

[The Prowler]

Minimum wage should have been connected to the consumer price index 50 years ago.

That is a reasonable idea.