Does this bother anyone else?

[Dove]

Libruls r gooder.

Libruls r gooder.

So it doesnt bother you at all that the argument is poor and poor minorities shouldnt have to get ID to vote.....but food stamps require ID?

This doesnt bother you?

Everything has to be bullshit with you? You cant give an opinion like a normal, thinking and empathetic person?

The point is you are missing the point, the "right" is making Voting less convenient in more ways that just this one. Dove you attempt to act objective, what if Trump did come back and win in 2024, and then a "Liberal" judge overturned the election, because partisan hackery, would you be OK with that?

I want to ask her what if 2018 had been overturned. After all, Trump DID get 3 million fewer votes than Hill the Shill. He wasn't really a legit president to begin with.

And yes, the voter ID stuff, @Dove, is pretty silly. But it's nothing in comparison to all the gerrymandering the CONs do. CONs wouldn't win anything on the federal level without it. Let's outlaw gerrymandering, get rid of the electoral college, AND require voter ID. I vote yes for all three.

So we should never criticize democrats because CONS?

Absolutely no on getting rid of the electoral college. THIS is what I'm talking about when I say you guys want a one party state.

We are a Republic were the minority also gets a say. Each state gets it's own votes. A full blown majority rule democracy would put us under the tyranny of the majority.

You are talking about fundamental changing the entire country......not fixing the issues we have that would make it run more smoothly for everyone.

It's scary when the immediate response to criticism of one party is to redirect to the other. You may not realize what you are saying is "well these other people are doing sleazebag stuff so look at that and not the sleazebag stuff here".

Nothing will get better ever until all elected officials have to be accountable. So far the only accountability demanded is for the opposing parties. That's not good Lotus.

Everyone who voted for these dems needs to hold them to fire.....not the opposition. They are more worried about trying to stop other Americans having representation in government than they are keeping the people they put in power in line.

It's a cold civil war.

I really think some of your posts would be far more interesting, if you knew what you were talking about.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I would take you more seriously if you were capable of discussing anything without insults. You cant even clarify your own posts, you just throw insults.

 

[Admin.]

Libruls r gooder.

So it doesnt bother you at all that the argument is poor and poor minorities shouldnt have to get ID to vote.....but food stamps require ID?

This doesnt bother you?

Everything has to be bullshit with you? You cant give an opinion like a normal, thinking and empathetic person?

The only thing that would bother him is if he couldn’t find a cock to suck in a community shower

JFC Stubby, this is not something you should be amplifying!

 

[Biggie Smiles]

Libruls r gooder.

So it doesnt bother you at all that the argument is poor and poor minorities shouldnt have to get ID to vote.....but food stamps require ID?

This doesnt bother you?

Everything has to be bullshit with you? You cant give an opinion like a normal, thinking and empathetic person?

The only thing that would bother him is if he couldn’t find a cock to suck in a community shower

You spend so much time on here accusing others of doing what you are actually doing yourself. It's so transparent.

Ur mam

 

[Joe]

You know it's pretty problematic to me that the same people ignorantly claiming that poor people and poor minorities will not be able to vote if ID is required to vote.

You also need to show ID to receive food benefits and state medical assistance.

So basically you have these people who think that poor and poor minorities dont have IDs and also do not have easy accessibility to obtain such. And then the fact you need one to get food benefits.

So this tells me that it's more important and an urgent issue to make sure these people can vote without ID.....but it's not even a conversation that if they cant get an ID to vote, they are not getting FOOD either. Or medical help. So what it's more important to just fight against IDs to vote than it is to maybe HELP people get an ID so they can not only vote but get HELP WITH FOOD?

Maybe the people arguing this know that it's all crap and know the truth that poor and poor minorities have ID just like everyone else. Thrre are homeless people on the streets who have ID. This is not some huge obstacle and even if it was.... even if the people saying this utter insulting crap truly believed it.....WHY wouldnt they just HELP people get an ID? You know so they do more than just vote (and vote democrat btw)? Like welfare requires ID. Getting a job requires an ID. I have NEVER seen a tiny bit of worry that poor and poor minorities are starving or going without healthcare or a way to get a job because it all requires an ID and ID is so hard for them to get.

If I believed(and I dont, btw. I've been poor and hanging out among the poor ALL my life.... everyone has an ID) that they couldnt easily get ID, I would be far more worried about their children going hungry. But that's just me. Apparently.

This crap is just an excuse to fight against fair and secure voting. Period. This is just partisan exploitation.

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

It would be far MORE helpful to start an initiative to help Americans who have issues getting their required legal documents and obtaining IDs than it would be to just let anyone vote with no proof of age or citizenship. Requiring ID will also help the massive distrust people have with our election process. There is nothing wrong with this and everything wrong with the arguments against it.

And I will personally help anyone who asks me if they struggle with getting an ID. Its like 6 bucks and a few miserable hours at the DMV.....its not some giant obstacle.

...and yet there is also the issue of homelessness in the United States, Dovey.

Will the requirement of ID also come with a permanent place of residence as well?

That if a person don't have a place to live which is printed in their ID, that it might also invalidate tem when they go to vote at a polling station?

What if that becomes the next requirement?

"Oh BTW man/miss/sir, you don't have a fixed address on your ID, therefore, you can't vote here.

USA has a huge homeless problem too.

So there is more to than just flashing ID, it's also the requirements that go along with it.

States like Texas and Georgia can keep slapping on requirerments for the potential voter until they exclude all those they don't want and they get the voting list they always want to prevent the party the governing one doesn't want ever to get into power.

Plus what you seem to have in the States is no universal voting laws. for federal elections

Each state just makes up its own.

Different voting laws for each state...in a federal election.

So a guy/girl could vote in one state in a previous election & in the next one be voting in another state with entirely different laws. And the people in the state they moved to could slap on new reqrements for him/her that weren't present in the state they moved from.

So...it's not just a slam dunk issue about producing ID or whether a person is a citizen or not.

There may be residency requirements, tax returns, arrears, fines which the next state might use to prohibit the voter from voting. The politicians in power will just keep slapping on more requirements than just plain old ID.

For example, you could go out tomorrow and get a passpport, but now...they say stuff llike -it's gotta have a certification tha tyou have been vaccinated against COVID. Or... you get your driver's license, and then the guv turns around and sez it's gotta have an RFID chip in it.

That sorta think has or is happening in Canada. Canadian government is now talking about brining in passports which have to show that a person was vaccinated aginst COVID. Use to be Canadian citizens could travel to the USA with just a Driver's license. But now it's either gotta have an RFID chip in it or some cases the US doesn't accept them, jsut a passport. And in some cases, they need a NEXUS card in order to cross into the US, which has all the data of those passholders in some central computer in the US.

As usual, there's a lotta politics always involved, and nothing works as it should in an ideal or perfect world.

There's always more than meets the eye.

People need an ID for a shelter.....crickets

People need ID for food assistance......crickets

People need ID to vote.......Democrats lose their shit.

You dont find this exploitive? It's kinda like people actually care about any of these people. Just how they vote.

If people genuinely care, they should start some initiative to help these people who dont have an ID to get an ID. You know so they do more besides vote. That would be far more helpful than leaving people on the streets to scratch for food and saying "see you at the polls!". This is another example of how democrats dont care about the people they claim to care about. Poor, poor minorities are like a booty call for democrats. They only care around election.

If this was anywhere the problem it's being made out to be, just help people get an ID. Then we can have more election security for those who dont trust the elections and the people so bad off they cant get an ID can have an ID and participate in everything else you need an ID for.

Because isnt just people without ID wont be able to vote. They also wont be able to get assistance. ID being "difficult" to get is the problem. People can help with that......rather than just using it to argue against voting laws.

If the issue was merely about flashing a person's ID to identify themselves, I don't think most people would have a problem with that.

But then Both Georgia and Texas shoved through legislation which made drastic overhaul of 10 other things on their wish list.

ie - Georgia eliminated an entire position & allows others to overturn election results.

So these people have much more sinister intent than they claim.

And it's not just about ID requirements but controlling the ballot box and stuffing them with the votes they want.

That is ini itself antidemocratic.

I suppose it's your country, but wouldn't wanna live in one where the fundamental rules are altered at whim, undemocratically.

It seems that voters in those states don't/didn't haev a say in what changes should or ought to be made to the voting procedures.

Also, there was no proper commission with a bipartinsan support to address electoral reform. in those states.

 

[Dove]

You know it's pretty problematic to me that the same people ignorantly claiming that poor people and poor minorities will not be able to vote if ID is required to vote.

You also need to show ID to receive food benefits and state medical assistance.

So basically you have these people who think that poor and poor minorities dont have IDs and also do not have easy accessibility to obtain such. And then the fact you need one to get food benefits.

So this tells me that it's more important and an urgent issue to make sure these people can vote without ID.....but it's not even a conversation that if they cant get an ID to vote, they are not getting FOOD either. Or medical help. So what it's more important to just fight against IDs to vote than it is to maybe HELP people get an ID so they can not only vote but get HELP WITH FOOD?

Maybe the people arguing this know that it's all crap and know the truth that poor and poor minorities have ID just like everyone else. Thrre are homeless people on the streets who have ID. This is not some huge obstacle and even if it was.... even if the people saying this utter insulting crap truly believed it.....WHY wouldnt they just HELP people get an ID? You know so they do more than just vote (and vote democrat btw)? Like welfare requires ID. Getting a job requires an ID. I have NEVER seen a tiny bit of worry that poor and poor minorities are starving or going without healthcare or a way to get a job because it all requires an ID and ID is so hard for them to get.

If I believed(and I dont, btw. I've been poor and hanging out among the poor ALL my life.... everyone has an ID) that they couldnt easily get ID, I would be far more worried about their children going hungry. But that's just me. Apparently.

This crap is just an excuse to fight against fair and secure voting. Period. This is just partisan exploitation.

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

It would be far MORE helpful to start an initiative to help Americans who have issues getting their required legal documents and obtaining IDs than it would be to just let anyone vote with no proof of age or citizenship. Requiring ID will also help the massive distrust people have with our election process. There is nothing wrong with this and everything wrong with the arguments against it.

And I will personally help anyone who asks me if they struggle with getting an ID. Its like 6 bucks and a few miserable hours at the DMV.....its not some giant obstacle.

...and yet there is also the issue of homelessness in the United States, Dovey.

Will the requirement of ID also come with a permanent place of residence as well?

That if a person don't have a place to live which is printed in their ID, that it might also invalidate tem when they go to vote at a polling station?

What if that becomes the next requirement?

"Oh BTW man/miss/sir, you don't have a fixed address on your ID, therefore, you can't vote here.

USA has a huge homeless problem too.

So there is more to than just flashing ID, it's also the requirements that go along with it.

States like Texas and Georgia can keep slapping on requirerments for the potential voter until they exclude all those they don't want and they get the voting list they always want to prevent the party the governing one doesn't want ever to get into power.

Plus what you seem to have in the States is no universal voting laws. for federal elections

Each state just makes up its own.

Different voting laws for each state...in a federal election.

So a guy/girl could vote in one state in a previous election & in the next one be voting in another state with entirely different laws. And the people in the state they moved to could slap on new reqrements for him/her that weren't present in the state they moved from.

So...it's not just a slam dunk issue about producing ID or whether a person is a citizen or not.

There may be residency requirements, tax returns, arrears, fines which the next state might use to prohibit the voter from voting. The politicians in power will just keep slapping on more requirements than just plain old ID.

For example, you could go out tomorrow and get a passpport, but now...they say stuff llike -it's gotta have a certification tha tyou have been vaccinated against COVID. Or... you get your driver's license, and then the guv turns around and sez it's gotta have an RFID chip in it.

That sorta think has or is happening in Canada. Canadian government is now talking about brining in passports which have to show that a person was vaccinated aginst COVID. Use to be Canadian citizens could travel to the USA with just a Driver's license. But now it's either gotta have an RFID chip in it or some cases the US doesn't accept them, jsut a passport. And in some cases, they need a NEXUS card in order to cross into the US, which has all the data of those passholders in some central computer in the US.

As usual, there's a lotta politics always involved, and nothing works as it should in an ideal or perfect world.

There's always more than meets the eye.

People need an ID for a shelter.....crickets

People need ID for food assistance......crickets

People need ID to vote.......Democrats lose their shit.

You dont find this exploitive? It's kinda like people actually care about any of these people. Just how they vote.

If people genuinely care, they should start some initiative to help these people who dont have an ID to get an ID. You know so they do more besides vote. That would be far more helpful than leaving people on the streets to scratch for food and saying "see you at the polls!". This is another example of how democrats dont care about the people they claim to care about. Poor, poor minorities are like a booty call for democrats. They only care around election.

If this was anywhere the problem it's being made out to be, just help people get an ID. Then we can have more election security for those who dont trust the elections and the people so bad off they cant get an ID can have an ID and participate in everything else you need an ID for.

Because isnt just people without ID wont be able to vote. They also wont be able to get assistance. ID being "difficult" to get is the problem. People can help with that......rather than just using it to argue against voting laws.

If the issue was merely about flashing a person's ID to identify themselves, I don't think most people would have a problem with that.

But then Both Georgia and Texas shoved through legislation which made drastic overhaul of 10 other things on their wish list.

ie - Georgia eliminated an entire position & allows others to overturn election results.

So these people have much more sinister intent than they claim.



I suppose it's your country, but wouldn't wanna live in one where the fundamental rules are altered at whim, undemocratically.

It seems that voters in those states don't/didn't haev a say in what changes should or ought to be made to the voting procedures.

Also, there was no proper commission with a bipartinsan support to address electoral reform. in those states.

You know state laws were changed last minute in swing states?

Here in Michigan the SOS had acted outside the law and unilaterally decided to allow votes without authentication.

You said "And it's not just about ID requirements but controlling the ballot box and stuffing them with the votes they want.

That is ini itself antidemocratic."

That's exactly what people want stopped. That's why the bills are happening. Because people do not trust the elections are secure and feel their votes are being diluted with illegal votes.

 

[Oerdin]

You know it's pretty problematic to me that the same people ignorantly claiming that poor people and poor minorities will not be able to vote if ID is required to vote.

You also need to show ID to receive food benefits and state medical assistance.

So basically you have these people who think that poor and poor minorities dont have IDs and also do not have easy accessibility to obtain such. And then the fact you need one to get food benefits.

So this tells me that it's more important and an urgent issue to make sure these people can vote without ID.....but it's not even a conversation that if they cant get an ID to vote, they are not getting FOOD either. Or medical help. So what it's more important to just fight against IDs to vote than it is to maybe HELP people get an ID so they can not only vote but get HELP WITH FOOD?

Maybe the people arguing this know that it's all crap and know the truth that poor and poor minorities have ID just like everyone else. Thrre are homeless people on the streets who have ID. This is not some huge obstacle and even if it was.... even if the people saying this utter insulting crap truly believed it.....WHY wouldnt they just HELP people get an ID? You know so they do more than just vote (and vote democrat btw)? Like welfare requires ID. Getting a job requires an ID. I have NEVER seen a tiny bit of worry that poor and poor minorities are starving or going without healthcare or a way to get a job because it all requires an ID and ID is so hard for them to get.

If I believed(and I dont, btw. I've been poor and hanging out among the poor ALL my life.... everyone has an ID) that they couldnt easily get ID, I would be far more worried about their children going hungry. But that's just me. Apparently.

This crap is just an excuse to fight against fair and secure voting. Period. This is just partisan exploitation.

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

It would be far MORE helpful to start an initiative to help Americans who have issues getting their required legal documents and obtaining IDs than it would be to just let anyone vote with no proof of age or citizenship. Requiring ID will also help the massive distrust people have with our election process. There is nothing wrong with this and everything wrong with the arguments against it.

And I will personally help anyone who asks me if they struggle with getting an ID. Its like 6 bucks and a few miserable hours at the DMV.....its not some giant obstacle.

...and yet there is also the issue of homelessness in the United States, Dovey.

Will the requirement of ID also come with a permanent place of residence as well?

That if a person don't have a place to live which is printed in their ID, that it might also invalidate tem when they go to vote at a polling station?

What if that becomes the next requirement?

"Oh BTW man/miss/sir, you don't have a fixed address on your ID, therefore, you can't vote here.

USA has a huge homeless problem too.

So there is more to than just flashing ID, it's also the requirements that go along with it.

States like Texas and Georgia can keep slapping on requirerments for the potential voter until they exclude all those they don't want and they get the voting list they always want to prevent the party the governing one doesn't want ever to get into power.

Plus what you seem to have in the States is no universal voting laws. for federal elections

Each state just makes up its own.

Different voting laws for each state...in a federal election.

So a guy/girl could vote in one state in a previous election & in the next one be voting in another state with entirely different laws. And the people in the state they moved to could slap on new reqrements for him/her that weren't present in the state they moved from.

So...it's not just a slam dunk issue about producing ID or whether a person is a citizen or not.

There may be residency requirements, tax returns, arrears, fines which the next state might use to prohibit the voter from voting. The politicians in power will just keep slapping on more requirements than just plain old ID.

For example, you could go out tomorrow and get a passpport, but now...they say stuff llike -it's gotta have a certification tha tyou have been vaccinated against COVID. Or... you get your driver's license, and then the guv turns around and sez it's gotta have an RFID chip in it.

That sorta think has or is happening in Canada. Canadian government is now talking about brining in passports which have to show that a person was vaccinated aginst COVID. Use to be Canadian citizens could travel to the USA with just a Driver's license. But now it's either gotta have an RFID chip in it or some cases the US doesn't accept them, jsut a passport. And in some cases, they need a NEXUS card in order to cross into the US, which has all the data of those passholders in some central computer in the US.

As usual, there's a lotta politics always involved, and nothing works as it should in an ideal or perfect world.

There's always more than meets the eye.

In California homeless get to legally vote any where they want even without an address. It is some what controversial among everyone but the far left especially as key districts have thousands more votes than residents with supposedly homeless people just listing an intersection with in the district. No ID required.

Personally, I find that highly suspect because they can same day register any homeless they want any where they want in order to flip tight races. It is at heart just unethical and ripe for abuse by political groups. Especially since we have seen Democrats offer inducements to vote such as $20 and/or a free beer which is illegal but not enforced.

 

[Joe]

You know it's pretty problematic to me that the same people ignorantly claiming that poor people and poor minorities will not be able to vote if ID is required to vote.

You also need to show ID to receive food benefits and state medical assistance.

So basically you have these people who think that poor and poor minorities dont have IDs and also do not have easy accessibility to obtain such. And then the fact you need one to get food benefits.

So this tells me that it's more important and an urgent issue to make sure these people can vote without ID.....but it's not even a conversation that if they cant get an ID to vote, they are not getting FOOD either. Or medical help. So what it's more important to just fight against IDs to vote than it is to maybe HELP people get an ID so they can not only vote but get HELP WITH FOOD?

Maybe the people arguing this know that it's all crap and know the truth that poor and poor minorities have ID just like everyone else. Thrre are homeless people on the streets who have ID. This is not some huge obstacle and even if it was.... even if the people saying this utter insulting crap truly believed it.....WHY wouldnt they just HELP people get an ID? You know so they do more than just vote (and vote democrat btw)? Like welfare requires ID. Getting a job requires an ID. I have NEVER seen a tiny bit of worry that poor and poor minorities are starving or going without healthcare or a way to get a job because it all requires an ID and ID is so hard for them to get.

If I believed(and I dont, btw. I've been poor and hanging out among the poor ALL my life.... everyone has an ID) that they couldnt easily get ID, I would be far more worried about their children going hungry. But that's just me. Apparently.

This crap is just an excuse to fight against fair and secure voting. Period. This is just partisan exploitation.

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

It would be far MORE helpful to start an initiative to help Americans who have issues getting their required legal documents and obtaining IDs than it would be to just let anyone vote with no proof of age or citizenship. Requiring ID will also help the massive distrust people have with our election process. There is nothing wrong with this and everything wrong with the arguments against it.

And I will personally help anyone who asks me if they struggle with getting an ID. Its like 6 bucks and a few miserable hours at the DMV.....its not some giant obstacle.

...and yet there is also the issue of homelessness in the United States, Dovey.

Will the requirement of ID also come with a permanent place of residence as well?

That if a person don't have a place to live which is printed in their ID, that it might also invalidate tem when they go to vote at a polling station?

What if that becomes the next requirement?

"Oh BTW man/miss/sir, you don't have a fixed address on your ID, therefore, you can't vote here.

USA has a huge homeless problem too.

So there is more to than just flashing ID, it's also the requirements that go along with it.

States like Texas and Georgia can keep slapping on requirerments for the potential voter until they exclude all those they don't want and they get the voting list they always want to prevent the party the governing one doesn't want ever to get into power.

Plus what you seem to have in the States is no universal voting laws. for federal elections

Each state just makes up its own.

Different voting laws for each state...in a federal election.

So a guy/girl could vote in one state in a previous election & in the next one be voting in another state with entirely different laws. And the people in the state they moved to could slap on new reqrements for him/her that weren't present in the state they moved from.

So...it's not just a slam dunk issue about producing ID or whether a person is a citizen or not.

There may be residency requirements, tax returns, arrears, fines which the next state might use to prohibit the voter from voting. The politicians in power will just keep slapping on more requirements than just plain old ID.

For example, you could go out tomorrow and get a passpport, but now...they say stuff llike -it's gotta have a certification tha tyou have been vaccinated against COVID. Or... you get your driver's license, and then the guv turns around and sez it's gotta have an RFID chip in it.

That sorta think has or is happening in Canada. Canadian government is now talking about brining in passports which have to show that a person was vaccinated aginst COVID. Use to be Canadian citizens could travel to the USA with just a Driver's license. But now it's either gotta have an RFID chip in it or some cases the US doesn't accept them, jsut a passport. And in some cases, they need a NEXUS card in order to cross into the US, which has all the data of those passholders in some central computer in the US.

As usual, there's a lotta politics always involved, and nothing works as it should in an ideal or perfect world.

There's always more than meets the eye.

People need an ID for a shelter.....crickets

People need ID for food assistance......crickets

People need ID to vote.......Democrats lose their shit.

You dont find this exploitive? It's kinda like people actually care about any of these people. Just how they vote.

If people genuinely care, they should start some initiative to help these people who dont have an ID to get an ID. You know so they do more besides vote. That would be far more helpful than leaving people on the streets to scratch for food and saying "see you at the polls!". This is another example of how democrats dont care about the people they claim to care about. Poor, poor minorities are like a booty call for democrats. They only care around election.

If this was anywhere the problem it's being made out to be, just help people get an ID. Then we can have more election security for those who dont trust the elections and the people so bad off they cant get an ID can have an ID and participate in everything else you need an ID for.

Because isnt just people without ID wont be able to vote. They also wont be able to get assistance. ID being "difficult" to get is the problem. People can help with that......rather than just using it to argue against voting laws.

If the issue was merely about flashing a person's ID to identify themselves, I don't think most people would have a problem with that.

But then Both Georgia and Texas shoved through legislation which made drastic overhaul of 10 other things on their wish list.

ie - Georgia eliminated an entire position & allows others to overturn election results.

So these people have much more sinister intent than they claim.



I suppose it's your country, but wouldn't wanna live in one where the fundamental rules are altered at whim, undemocratically.

It seems that voters in those states don't/didn't haev a say in what changes should or ought to be made to the voting procedures.

Also, there was no proper commission with a bipartinsan support to address electoral reform. in those states.

You know state laws were changed last minute in swing states?

Here in Michigan the SOS had acted outside the law and unilaterally decided to allow votes without authentication.

You said "And it's not just about ID requirements but controlling the ballot box and stuffing them with the votes they want.

That is ini itself antidemocratic."

That's exactly what people want stopped. That's why the bills are happening. Because people do not trust the elections are secure and feel their votes are being diluted with illegal votes.

Well Dovey, if it makes you happy, I didn't say/think it's just or it'll be one party who abuses or will abuse voting laws.

I think both major US political parties have done and and will continue to do it.

If voter fraud is as rampant as you and others sgugest, what the USA needs and should invest in is a computerized National Voter ID card with a national registry stored in a central data bank..

Really, that time has come.

The USA is so big, it's the same size as the European Union in physical and population size.

But the EU has over a dozen nations within it.

This would be the ideal situation.

However, because of political haggling, I don't think this will ever be achieved.

Also, there doesn't seem to be the political will from either party to fund, reform or even admit that a problem exists in the USA.

They just wanna go along with a hodge podge system which is unwieldy outdated and doesn't work anymore.

 

[Dove]

You know it's pretty problematic to me that the same people ignorantly claiming that poor people and poor minorities will not be able to vote if ID is required to vote.

You also need to show ID to receive food benefits and state medical assistance.

So basically you have these people who think that poor and poor minorities dont have IDs and also do not have easy accessibility to obtain such. And then the fact you need one to get food benefits.

So this tells me that it's more important and an urgent issue to make sure these people can vote without ID.....but it's not even a conversation that if they cant get an ID to vote, they are not getting FOOD either. Or medical help. So what it's more important to just fight against IDs to vote than it is to maybe HELP people get an ID so they can not only vote but get HELP WITH FOOD?

Maybe the people arguing this know that it's all crap and know the truth that poor and poor minorities have ID just like everyone else. Thrre are homeless people on the streets who have ID. This is not some huge obstacle and even if it was.... even if the people saying this utter insulting crap truly believed it.....WHY wouldnt they just HELP people get an ID? You know so they do more than just vote (and vote democrat btw)? Like welfare requires ID. Getting a job requires an ID. I have NEVER seen a tiny bit of worry that poor and poor minorities are starving or going without healthcare or a way to get a job because it all requires an ID and ID is so hard for them to get.

If I believed(and I dont, btw. I've been poor and hanging out among the poor ALL my life.... everyone has an ID) that they couldnt easily get ID, I would be far more worried about their children going hungry. But that's just me. Apparently.

This crap is just an excuse to fight against fair and secure voting. Period. This is just partisan exploitation.

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

It would be far MORE helpful to start an initiative to help Americans who have issues getting their required legal documents and obtaining IDs than it would be to just let anyone vote with no proof of age or citizenship. Requiring ID will also help the massive distrust people have with our election process. There is nothing wrong with this and everything wrong with the arguments against it.

And I will personally help anyone who asks me if they struggle with getting an ID. Its like 6 bucks and a few miserable hours at the DMV.....its not some giant obstacle.

...and yet there is also the issue of homelessness in the United States, Dovey.

Will the requirement of ID also come with a permanent place of residence as well?

That if a person don't have a place to live which is printed in their ID, that it might also invalidate tem when they go to vote at a polling station?

What if that becomes the next requirement?

"Oh BTW man/miss/sir, you don't have a fixed address on your ID, therefore, you can't vote here.

USA has a huge homeless problem too.

So there is more to than just flashing ID, it's also the requirements that go along with it.

States like Texas and Georgia can keep slapping on requirerments for the potential voter until they exclude all those they don't want and they get the voting list they always want to prevent the party the governing one doesn't want ever to get into power.

Plus what you seem to have in the States is no universal voting laws. for federal elections

Each state just makes up its own.

Different voting laws for each state...in a federal election.

So a guy/girl could vote in one state in a previous election & in the next one be voting in another state with entirely different laws. And the people in the state they moved to could slap on new reqrements for him/her that weren't present in the state they moved from.

So...it's not just a slam dunk issue about producing ID or whether a person is a citizen or not.

There may be residency requirements, tax returns, arrears, fines which the next state might use to prohibit the voter from voting. The politicians in power will just keep slapping on more requirements than just plain old ID.

For example, you could go out tomorrow and get a passpport, but now...they say stuff llike -it's gotta have a certification tha tyou have been vaccinated against COVID. Or... you get your driver's license, and then the guv turns around and sez it's gotta have an RFID chip in it.

That sorta think has or is happening in Canada. Canadian government is now talking about brining in passports which have to show that a person was vaccinated aginst COVID. Use to be Canadian citizens could travel to the USA with just a Driver's license. But now it's either gotta have an RFID chip in it or some cases the US doesn't accept them, jsut a passport. And in some cases, they need a NEXUS card in order to cross into the US, which has all the data of those passholders in some central computer in the US.

As usual, there's a lotta politics always involved, and nothing works as it should in an ideal or perfect world.

There's always more than meets the eye.

People need an ID for a shelter.....crickets

People need ID for food assistance......crickets

People need ID to vote.......Democrats lose their shit.

You dont find this exploitive? It's kinda like people actually care about any of these people. Just how they vote.

If people genuinely care, they should start some initiative to help these people who dont have an ID to get an ID. You know so they do more besides vote. That would be far more helpful than leaving people on the streets to scratch for food and saying "see you at the polls!". This is another example of how democrats dont care about the people they claim to care about. Poor, poor minorities are like a booty call for democrats. They only care around election.

If this was anywhere the problem it's being made out to be, just help people get an ID. Then we can have more election security for those who dont trust the elections and the people so bad off they cant get an ID can have an ID and participate in everything else you need an ID for.

Because isnt just people without ID wont be able to vote. They also wont be able to get assistance. ID being "difficult" to get is the problem. People can help with that......rather than just using it to argue against voting laws.

If the issue was merely about flashing a person's ID to identify themselves, I don't think most people would have a problem with that.

But then Both Georgia and Texas shoved through legislation which made drastic overhaul of 10 other things on their wish list.

ie - Georgia eliminated an entire position & allows others to overturn election results.

So these people have much more sinister intent than they claim.



I suppose it's your country, but wouldn't wanna live in one where the fundamental rules are altered at whim, undemocratically.

It seems that voters in those states don't/didn't haev a say in what changes should or ought to be made to the voting procedures.

Also, there was no proper commission with a bipartinsan support to address electoral reform. in those states.

You know state laws were changed last minute in swing states?

Here in Michigan the SOS had acted outside the law and unilaterally decided to allow votes without authentication.

You said "And it's not just about ID requirements but controlling the ballot box and stuffing them with the votes they want.

That is ini itself antidemocratic."

That's exactly what people want stopped. That's why the bills are happening. Because people do not trust the elections are secure and feel their votes are being diluted with illegal votes.

Well Dovey, if it makes you happy, I didn't say/think it's just or it'll be one party who abuses or will abuse voting laws.

I think both major US political parties have done and and will continue to do it.

If voter fraud is as rampant as you and others sgugest, what the USA needs and should invest in is a computerized National Voter ID card with a national registry stored in a central data bank..

Really, that time has come.

The USA is so big, it's the same size as the European Union in physical and population size.

But the EU has over a dozen nations within it.

This would be the ideal situation.

However, because of political haggling, I don't think this will ever be achieved.

Also, there doesn't seem to be the political will from either party to fund, reform or even admit that a problem exists in the USA.

They just wanna go along with a hodge podge system which is unwieldy outdated and doesn't work anymore.

There isnt really "two parties" in the government.

We cant even get IDs requirement to vote. If did what you suggest, it would solve way too many problems so no one in there would go for it. And the democrats would demonize it, most Republicans would agree and the people who follow these people would do what you see them doing now.

 

[Joe]

You know it's pretty problematic to me that the same people ignorantly claiming that poor people and poor minorities will not be able to vote if ID is required to vote.

You also need to show ID to receive food benefits and state medical assistance.

So basically you have these people who think that poor and poor minorities dont have IDs and also do not have easy accessibility to obtain such. And then the fact you need one to get food benefits.

So this tells me that it's more important and an urgent issue to make sure these people can vote without ID.....but it's not even a conversation that if they cant get an ID to vote, they are not getting FOOD either. Or medical help. So what it's more important to just fight against IDs to vote than it is to maybe HELP people get an ID so they can not only vote but get HELP WITH FOOD?

Maybe the people arguing this know that it's all crap and know the truth that poor and poor minorities have ID just like everyone else. Thrre are homeless people on the streets who have ID. This is not some huge obstacle and even if it was.... even if the people saying this utter insulting crap truly believed it.....WHY wouldnt they just HELP people get an ID? You know so they do more than just vote (and vote democrat btw)? Like welfare requires ID. Getting a job requires an ID. I have NEVER seen a tiny bit of worry that poor and poor minorities are starving or going without healthcare or a way to get a job because it all requires an ID and ID is so hard for them to get.

If I believed(and I dont, btw. I've been poor and hanging out among the poor ALL my life.... everyone has an ID) that they couldnt easily get ID, I would be far more worried about their children going hungry. But that's just me. Apparently.

This crap is just an excuse to fight against fair and secure voting. Period. This is just partisan exploitation.

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

It would be far MORE helpful to start an initiative to help Americans who have issues getting their required legal documents and obtaining IDs than it would be to just let anyone vote with no proof of age or citizenship. Requiring ID will also help the massive distrust people have with our election process. There is nothing wrong with this and everything wrong with the arguments against it.

And I will personally help anyone who asks me if they struggle with getting an ID. Its like 6 bucks and a few miserable hours at the DMV.....its not some giant obstacle.

...and yet there is also the issue of homelessness in the United States, Dovey.

Will the requirement of ID also come with a permanent place of residence as well?

That if a person don't have a place to live which is printed in their ID, that it might also invalidate tem when they go to vote at a polling station?

What if that becomes the next requirement?

"Oh BTW man/miss/sir, you don't have a fixed address on your ID, therefore, you can't vote here.

USA has a huge homeless problem too.

So there is more to than just flashing ID, it's also the requirements that go along with it.

States like Texas and Georgia can keep slapping on requirerments for the potential voter until they exclude all those they don't want and they get the voting list they always want to prevent the party the governing one doesn't want ever to get into power.

Plus what you seem to have in the States is no universal voting laws. for federal elections

Each state just makes up its own.

Different voting laws for each state...in a federal election.

So a guy/girl could vote in one state in a previous election & in the next one be voting in another state with entirely different laws. And the people in the state they moved to could slap on new reqrements for him/her that weren't present in the state they moved from.

So...it's not just a slam dunk issue about producing ID or whether a person is a citizen or not.

There may be residency requirements, tax returns, arrears, fines which the next state might use to prohibit the voter from voting. The politicians in power will just keep slapping on more requirements than just plain old ID.

For example, you could go out tomorrow and get a passpport, but now...they say stuff llike -it's gotta have a certification tha tyou have been vaccinated against COVID. Or... you get your driver's license, and then the guv turns around and sez it's gotta have an RFID chip in it.

That sorta think has or is happening in Canada. Canadian government is now talking about brining in passports which have to show that a person was vaccinated aginst COVID. Use to be Canadian citizens could travel to the USA with just a Driver's license. But now it's either gotta have an RFID chip in it or some cases the US doesn't accept them, jsut a passport. And in some cases, they need a NEXUS card in order to cross into the US, which has all the data of those passholders in some central computer in the US.

As usual, there's a lotta politics always involved, and nothing works as it should in an ideal or perfect world.

There's always more than meets the eye.

People need an ID for a shelter.....crickets

People need ID for food assistance......crickets

People need ID to vote.......Democrats lose their shit.

You dont find this exploitive? It's kinda like people actually care about any of these people. Just how they vote.

If people genuinely care, they should start some initiative to help these people who dont have an ID to get an ID. You know so they do more besides vote. That would be far more helpful than leaving people on the streets to scratch for food and saying "see you at the polls!". This is another example of how democrats dont care about the people they claim to care about. Poor, poor minorities are like a booty call for democrats. They only care around election.

If this was anywhere the problem it's being made out to be, just help people get an ID. Then we can have more election security for those who dont trust the elections and the people so bad off they cant get an ID can have an ID and participate in everything else you need an ID for.

Because isnt just people without ID wont be able to vote. They also wont be able to get assistance. ID being "difficult" to get is the problem. People can help with that......rather than just using it to argue against voting laws.

If the issue was merely about flashing a person's ID to identify themselves, I don't think most people would have a problem with that.

But then Both Georgia and Texas shoved through legislation which made drastic overhaul of 10 other things on their wish list.

ie - Georgia eliminated an entire position & allows others to overturn election results.

So these people have much more sinister intent than they claim.



I suppose it's your country, but wouldn't wanna live in one where the fundamental rules are altered at whim, undemocratically.

It seems that voters in those states don't/didn't haev a say in what changes should or ought to be made to the voting procedures.

Also, there was no proper commission with a bipartinsan support to address electoral reform. in those states.

You know state laws were changed last minute in swing states?

Here in Michigan the SOS had acted outside the law and unilaterally decided to allow votes without authentication.

You said "And it's not just about ID requirements but controlling the ballot box and stuffing them with the votes they want.

That is ini itself antidemocratic."

That's exactly what people want stopped. That's why the bills are happening. Because people do not trust the elections are secure and feel their votes are being diluted with illegal votes.

Well Dovey, if it makes you happy, I didn't say/think it's just or it'll be one party who abuses or will abuse voting laws.

I think both major US political parties have done and and will continue to do it.

If voter fraud is as rampant as you and others sgugest, what the USA needs and should invest in is a computerized National Voter ID card with a national registry stored in a central data bank..

Really, that time has come.

The USA is so big, it's the same size as the European Union in physical and population size.

But the EU has over a dozen nations within it.

This would be the ideal situation.

However, because of political haggling, I don't think this will ever be achieved.

Also, there doesn't seem to be the political will from either party to fund, reform or even admit that a problem exists in the USA.

They just wanna go along with a hodge podge system which is unwieldy outdated and doesn't work anymore.

There isnt really "two parties" in the government.

We cant even get IDs requirement to vote. If did what you suggest, it would solve way too many problems so no one in there would go for it. And the democrats would demonize it, most Republicans would agree and the people who follow these people would do what you see them doing now.

Somewow I don't think the Republicans would go along with it either, as they'd cite privacy or Bill of Rights issues

Such a system would likely require that citizens surrender part of their privacy & Americans being Libertarians that they are probably wouldn't go a long with it.

Not like Estonia which has such as Estonia, which has everyone's records stored digitally:

 

[Joe]

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

There's another issue and that's about how much information a government should collect about you.

They start by asking you to flash your ID, but then soon that's not good enough.

Then they want you to divulge details about yourself in a census.

Then they dig deepeer into your financial records, your marital past.

And then they want to know if you. were vaccinated.

And if you were vaccinated, they want your DNA and blood type.

And they keep asking for more and more.

It's kinda like that TV show, the Prisoner, where the protagonist becomes the ultimate captive always under surveillance and his freedom is an illusion:

"I am not a Number, I am a Free Man!"

...well, sorta

He thinks he is, but he isn't.

 

[Dove]

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

There's another issue and that's about how much information a government should collect about you.

They start by asking you to flash your ID, but then soon that's not good enough.

Then they want you to divulge details about yourself in a census.

Then they dig deepeer into your financial records, your marital past.

And then they want to know if you. were vaccinated.

And if you were vaccinated, they want your DNA and blood type.

And they keep asking for more and more.

It's kinda like that TV show, the Prisoner, where the protagonist becomes the ultimate captive always under surveillance and his freedom is an illusion:

"I am not a Number, I am a Free Man!"

...well, sorta

He thinks he is, but he isn't.

Joe, the government already has all that info.

They are already way more involved in our lives than they should be.

We have two requirements for voting here. You have to be a citizen and you have be 18+.

Its perfectly reasonable and solve a lot of issues if we required proof of both.

Personally I DONT think everyone should be able to vote. I think people should have to not just prove they are citizens of voting age, but take a test showing they understand how the government works(state and federal), that they understand what the candidates are running on, what the policies are and how those will work, and if a candidate has a history in politics.. understand what they accomplished and voted for.

Like a liscence. A voting liscence.

And I oppose corporate money and gerrymandering and all that bullshit as well. And the use of MSM to favor a certain party and politicain. News should never be used to influence and interfere with how people vote. They should only be reporting facts. There is so much that wasnt even reported on at all.

I honestly do not think we will ever get our country back.

 

[Joe]

There are TWO requirements to vote in this country. And they both make sense. You must be 18, and you must be a citizen. We SHOULD be requiring proof that the voter meets these requirements. It actually disenfranchises the votes of citizens if our voting system isnt secure and fair.

The arguments against requiring ID are an insulting, condescending and classist JOKE. What other basic everyday thing do poor people struggle with? Do you guys also think we should have helmets to walk or bibs to wear? Honest question. How stupid, helpless and incompetent do people think the poor are?

There's another issue and that's about how much information a government should collect about you.

They start by asking you to flash your ID, but then soon that's not good enough.

Then they want you to divulge details about yourself in a census.

Then they dig deepeer into your financial records, your marital past.

And then they want to know if you. were vaccinated.

And if you were vaccinated, they want your DNA and blood type.

And they keep asking for more and more.

It's kinda like that TV show, the Prisoner, where the protagonist becomes the ultimate captive always under surveillance and his freedom is an illusion:

"I am not a Number, I am a Free Man!"

...well, sorta

He thinks he is, but he isn't.

Joe, the government already has all that info.

They are already way more involved in our lives than they should be.

We have two requirements for voting here. You have to be a citizen and you have be 18+.

Its perfectly reasonable and solve a lot of issues if we required proof of both.

Personally I DONT think everyone should be able to vote. I think people should have to not just prove they are citizens of voting age, but take a test showing they understand how the government works(state and federal), that they understand what the candidates are running on, what the policies are and how those will work, and if a candidate has a history in politics.. understand what they accomplished and voted for.

Like a liscence. A voting liscence.

And I oppose corporate money and gerrymandering and all that bullshit as well. And the use of MSM to favor a certain party and politicain. News should never be used to influence and interfere with how people vote. They should only be reporting facts. There is so much that wasnt even reported on at all.

I honestly do not think we will ever get our country back.

Well Dovey, I sometimes feel uncomfortable with the amount of information my government has about me.

And they always want even more.

The other day a Government of Canada census worker busted down my door demanding I take a guv census.

They already know who I friggin am.

But the guv always wants to dig deeper and to keep track of its citizens.

On one hand, it has its benefits.

We have somewhat of a socialist nanny state in Canada that takes care of its people.

But on the other hand, they seem to want more ifnromation about a person than they are sometimes unwilling to divulge.