Just Curious Re: The Situation in Gaza

Larry Loungelizard

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At this point you have to wonder. But I can only imagine their reasoning not be all that different from Israel’s.
It makes no sense in a tactical way. They're pretty much fighting over rubble, they should be at the point where their supplies/ammo is minimal, their communications must be either compromised or non-existent, and they don't seem to have a unified plan.

It is almost as if they're going to fight to the last man and take as many innocents with them.
 

Lily

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It makes no sense in a tactical way. They're pretty much fighting over rubble, they should be at the point where their supplies/ammo is minimal, their communications must be either compromised or non-existent, and they don't seem to have a unified plan.

It is almost as if they're going to fight to the last man and take as many innocents with them.

The only plan is to never leave the land. It hasn't worked out for them to leave. Israel takes the land and keeps it.

There is no reason to leave.
 

Larry Loungelizard

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The only plan is to never leave the land. It hasn't worked out for them to leave. Israel takes the land and keeps it.

There is no reason to leave.
I'm not saying the Palestinians should leave Gaza, just that Hamas should disband and allow reconstruction to take place.
 

Lily

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I'm not saying the Palestinians should leave Gaza, just that Hamas should disband and allow reconstruction to take place.

Frankly, if Hamas disbands and even if they leave, this is not going to end peacefully. It won't happen until Israel stops trying to get rid of the millions of Palestinians that have lived in that land for hundreds of years.

The onus is on Israel. They really one have two options. Negotiate a sincere peace and allowing Palestinians a homeland that they once had, or a final solution. They will have to exterminate them all. That's not really an option is it though?

The need an actually democracy, not a Jewish theocracy in what I would call Greater Israel. They won't do it though. Violence will continue.
 

Larry Loungelizard

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Frankly, if Hamas disbands and even if they leave, this is not going to end peacefully. It won't happen until Israel stops trying to get rid of the millions of Palestinians that have lived in that land for hundreds of years.

The onus is on Israel. They really one have two options. Negotiate a sincere peace and allowing Palestinians a homeland that they once had, or a final solution. They will have to exterminate them all. That's not really an option is it though?

The need an actually democracy, not a Jewish theocracy in what I would call Greater Israel. They won't do it though. Violence will continue.
I admire your optimism.
 

Lily

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I admire your optimism.

What optimism? I said that they won't do it and that violence will continue.

Sorry, not sorry, but the Torah is not a legal binding document that establishes nationhood.

Neither is "I used to live there".

This isn't 2000 years ago. This is supposed to be a modern era with international laws and agreements. And those aren't all square either.

So, this bs God gave us this land, is just that, bs.
 

Larry Loungelizard

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What optimism? I said that they won't do it and that violence will continue.

Sorry, not sorry, but the Torah is not a legal binding document that establishes nationhood.

Neither is "I used to live there".

This isn't 2000 years ago. This is supposed to be a modern era with international laws and agreements. And those aren't all square either.

So, this bs God gave us this land, is just that, bs.
I was kidding. Look, I want peace as much as the next person, but the process will play out best without any Hamas presence.
 

Lily

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I was kidding. Look, I want peace as much as the next person, but the process will play out best without any Hamas presence.

I disagree...

Before Hamas it was the PLO

Now it's the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank...explain the mess in the West Bank where there is no Hamas, Larry.

I welcome that.
 

Larry Loungelizard

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I disagree...

Before Hamas it was the PLO

Now it's the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank...explain the mess in the West Bank where there is no Hamas, Larry.

I welcome that.
The Palestinian Authority isn't launching a surprise attack on the Israelis and their buildings are still standing. The only mess is that they have those nutbar settlers making things worse.
 

Lily

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The Palestinian Authority isn't launching a surprise attack on the Israelis and their buildings are still standing. The only mess is that they have those nutbar settlers making things worse.

It's not just the settlers though. It's settlers that are armed and supported by the military. Just because it's lower key, doesn't mean that the intent isn't the same.

They have no valid "excuse" to bomb them...they simple threaten and kill them a little at a time. They're often imprisoned. They too are considered "stateless" in their own homeland.
 

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The only plan is to never leave the land. It hasn't worked out for them to leave. Israel takes the land and keeps it.

There is no reason to leave.

The Palestinian Authority isn't launching a surprise attack on the Israelis and their buildings are still standing. The only mess is that they have those nutbar settlers making things worse.
But Israel continues chipping away bit by bit more territory for more settlements, or in the original German Lebensraum.
 

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I believe in Israel’s right to exist. But the manner in which the State was created was by a royal screwing over of a bunch of generational residents in one big mass deportation, that continues today. Why can’t they just get along?



And learn to live together.
 
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I don't think you have to be from any specific country to bring attention to an injustice.

"Never again" is supposed to mean something.
. Right, speak what you like from your own port. Once you intervene physically into another country's affairs you are ripe for arrest. That's what I said.
 

Lily

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. Right, speak what you like from your own port. Once you intervene physically into another country's affairs you are ripe for arrest. That's what I said.

They were in international waters. They were headed to Gaza.

But you're right, I shouldn't forget that Israel runs an open-air prison and blockades the Gaza coast. Silly me.
 
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They were in international waters. They were headed to Gaza.

But you're right, I shouldn't forget that Israel runs an open-air prison and blockades the Gaza coast. Silly me.
. So she was just intending to sail around the Med...toss stuff overboard and hope it drifted to Gaza?. Oh, I missed that point.
 
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Greta Thunberg was aboard a Gaza-bound ship, the Madleen, which was intercepted and seized by Israeli forces. The ship was attempting to deliver a symbolic shipment of humanitarian aid to Gaza, including rice and baby formula, in defiance of Israel's naval blockade.
The stated goal of the mission, according to the organizers the Freedom Flotilla Coalition, was to raise awareness about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and protest Israel's restrictions on the entry of aid. Israel dismissed the voyage as a pro-Hamas publicity stunt and stated that the small amount of aid would be transferred to Gaza through established channels.
 

Lily

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Greta Thunberg was aboard a Gaza-bound ship, the Madleen, which was intercepted and seized by Israeli forces. The ship was attempting to deliver a symbolic shipment of humanitarian aid to Gaza, including rice and baby formula, in defiance of Israel's naval blockade.
The stated goal of the mission, according to the organizers the Freedom Flotilla Coalition, was to raise awareness about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and protest Israel's restrictions on the entry of aid. Israel dismissed the voyage as a pro-Hamas publicity stunt and stated that the small amount of aid would be transferred to Gaza through established channels.

The region needs attention. There is the ethnic cleansing of a people going on and a genocide as defined by genocide scholars, including Jewish genocide scholars.

Never again and it is happening again.
 
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The region needs attention. There is the ethnic cleansing of a people going on and a genocide as defined by genocide scholars, including Jewish genocide scholars.

Never again and it is happening again.
. There is plenty of attention on the situation without additional grandstanding. As I said, she could do as anyone can and say what they like and also contribute aid without physically intervening which is nothing short of stupid.
Another thing that people who really want to see the end to violence can do is call for the end of Hamas. Ask them to lay down arms and disband since they (and radical islam, like Iran) are the problem. That is the only solution...the destruction of Hamas and radical islam.
 
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. Don't read this. If you do you will know whose aims are genocide. You will see who/what is the greatest evil on Earth.

The holy words of Hamas who act under the absolute guidance of allah/islam.

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS ======================================= The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:

Goals of the HAMAS: ------------------ 'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.' (Article 6) On the Destruction of Israel: ----------------------------- 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble) The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area: ---------------------------------------- 'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11) 'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13) The Call to Jihad: ------------------ 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15) 'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.' (Article 33) Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement: ------------------------------------------- '[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13) Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty: ---------------------------------------------- 'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32) Anti-Semitic Incitement: ------------------------ 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)
 

Lily

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. Don't read this. If you do you will know whose aims are genocide. You will see who/what is the greatest evil on Earth.

The holy words of Hamas who act under the absolute guidance of allah/islam.

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS ======================================= The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:

Goals of the HAMAS: ------------------ 'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.' (Article 6) On the Destruction of Israel: ----------------------------- 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble) The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area: ---------------------------------------- 'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11) 'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13) The Call to Jihad: ------------------ 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15) 'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.' (Article 33) Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement: ------------------------------------------- '[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13) Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty: ---------------------------------------------- 'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32) Anti-Semitic Incitement: ------------------------ 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)


I think paying attention to ACTIONS is important.

Israel has been making landgrabs since 1948...leaving a people stateless.
 
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I think paying attention to ACTIONS is important.

Israel has been making landgrabs since 1948...leaving a people stateless.
. Islam has been making land grabs since 643 CE and has murdered more people than all other violent conquests combined. We have been through this and I showed proof of it complete with history, comparisons, and the math. All opposition to Islam is good. You and anyone else wants to defend it...just know you are siding with the most reprehensible evil the world has ever suffered. It's all right there to see. Know the history of it, and know that it persists to this day.

. What in the charter do you agree with? That allah decreed that palestine is islamic property, and that all non-muslims must be killed?
 

Lily

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. Islam has been making land grabs since 643 CE and has murdered more people than all other violent conquests combined. We have been through this and I showed proof of it complete with history, comparisons, and the math. All opposition to Islam is good. You and anyone else wants to defend it...just know you are siding with the most reprehensible evil the world has ever suffered. It's all right there to see. Know the history of it, and know that it persists to this day.

. What in the charter do you agree with? That allah decreed that palestine is islamic property, and that all non-muslims must be killed?

And so did other cultures around the world. The Romans, The Russians, The Mongols, Spanish, English, French, Portuguese, Dutch... Hitler just 80 years ago..

It's not RELIGIOUS behavior...it's ancient human behavior.
 
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And so did other cultures around the world. The Romans, The Russians, The Mongols, Spanish, English, French, Portuguese, Dutch... Hitler just 80 years ago..

It's not RELIGIOUS behavior...it's ancient human behavior.
. So would it not be better to liberate these poor Gazans from the tyranny of islam though the destruction of Hamas and bring them forward into a world evolved from/beyond religious ignorance? Frankly, many of those you name brought advancements in civilization. islam never brought any of it's own unique invention. It is a sickness and degenerate. For the good of mankind it must be annihilated along with all radical conservatism.
 
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Lily

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. So would it not be better to liberate these poor Gazans from the tyranny of islam though the destruction of Hamas and bring them forward into a world evolved from religious ignorance? Frankly, many of those you name brought advancements in civilization. islam never brought any of it's own unique invention. It is a sickness and degenerate. For the good of mankind it must be annihilated along with all radical conservatism.

That's not true. You need to learn more about history. It's not my job to educate you.

Learning more about the Silk Road might prove eye opening.
 
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That's not true. You need to learn more about history. It's not my job to educate you.

Learning more about the Silk Road might prove eye opening.
LoLz - but I am here to educate you and those who ignorantly defend and condone islam. If anyone is incapable of learning then it isn't my failing for having tried because I have put, at one or another time, all needed to know before the class. Dismiss it and remain blind. The fact is islam has only advanced what they have stolen and murdered to acquire. Oh, and spare me any nonsense about their achievements. All were actually the achievements of those they oppressed (during the invasion/conquest of India during which hundreds of millions were murdered)...mostly Indian/Hindus. islam is a degenerate disease, a plague upon humankind.
 

Lily

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LoLz - but I am here to educate you and those who ignorantly defend and condone islam. If anyone is incapable of learning then it isn't my failing for having tried because I have put, at one or another time, all needed to know before the class. Dismiss it and remain blind. The fact is islam has only advanced what they have stolen and murdered to acquire. Oh, and spare me any nonsense about their achievements. All were actually the achievements of those they oppressed...mostly Indian/Hindus. islam is a degenerate disease, a plague upon humankind.

I'm not condoning any religion.

I am advocating for the end of a genocide.

I want to see little girls like Rahaf keep their legs and thrive in their own country. Israel is murdering children. Nothing you say changes that. Even Israeli society is starting to turn against this war...and Jews in the diaspora. The humane ones.