How Many of You anti-Corporate Conservatives are Picketing with UAW Workers

[The New Holliday]

like horrible Joe Biden, or is his being on the side of labor enough to turn you all back to pro big corporation?

 

[Admin.]

Republicans hate being questioned, I hope this dispute can be solved before the conservative's default to violence.

 

[The New Holliday]

Republicans hate being questioned, I hope this dispute can be solved before the conservative's default to violence.

..Pretty sure Trump would get out the Gatling guns for those treasonous traitors like he wants to for his general Milley and Illegal aliens. He's a very violent man who is now making himself out to be the new Don Quixote battling windmills, killers of whales.
You know - when a movement has a militant/violent leader it's understandable that the sheep who follow it learn to bite. Take Islam as an example. Are the American Taliban so different?

 

[Admin.]

..Pretty sure Trump would get out the Gatling guns for those treasonous traitors like he wants to for his general Milley and Illegal aliens. He's a very violent man who is now making himself out to be the new Don Quixote battling windmills, killers of whales.
You know - when a movement has a militant/violent leader it's understandable that the sheep who follow it learn to bite. Take Islam as an example. Are the American Taliban so different?

You make a very interesting point, The GOP and the Taliban co-opt religion to justify their greed and desire to control their sadistic version of morality..

 

[The New Holliday]

 

[Lily]

Trump was in Michigan last night during the debates he ducked. (BTW, Christie is calling him Donald Duck now- hehe)
He continues to be a fake.

"Some attendees at

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

’s speech about the autoworkers’ strike Wednesday apparently were shills carrying signs falsely identifying them as union members,

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

.

One person held a sign that said “union members for Trump,” but admitted to the newspaper she was not a union member. Another carried a placard with the words “auto workers for Trump” and confessed he was not an auto worker when the outlet requested an interview. Neither identified themselves."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[The New Holliday]

Trump to autoworkers:
Vote for me and fuck you.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Former President Donald Trump brought his campaign to Michigan on Wednesday night to ostensibly rally auto workers. But, while the United Auto Workers (UAW) union made plans to expand its strike on Friday, his message wasn't what many workers wanted to hear.
Speaking at Drake Enterprises, which oddly enough is non-union parts maker, Trump said he supported the UAW’s goal of securing higher wages, but that in the end it would not really matter.
"It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what you get because in two years you're all going to be out of business," Trump said to an at times oddly silent audience.



The UAW did not issue any new statements following Trump’s speech on Wednesday night, though union head Shawn Fain had strong words prior to Trump’s visit.
“I see no point in meeting with him because I don’t think the man has any bit of care about what our workers stand for, what the working class stands for,” Fain said to CNN on Tuesday. “[Trump] serves a billionaire class and that’s what’s wrong [with] this country.”

 

[LotusBud]

like horrible Joe Biden, or is his being on the side of labor enough to turn you all back to pro big corporation?

They've always been pro-big Corporation. Always.

 

[The New Holliday]

They've always been pro-big Corporation. Always.

Of course, but they like to say they aren't till they are again. It's just one of the many lies the "new" conservative likes to tell.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Reggie_Essent]

Unions are for stupid people who are too dumb to negotiate their own terms of employment.

 

[Lily]

Sure, Joe Blow vs GM, a conglomerate.

You're a clown.

 

[The Prowler]

Unions are for stupid people who are too dumb to negotiate their own terms of employment.

I have never been in a union.

My wife has never been in a union.

I was semi-retired since before I was 50; fully retired by 55.

My wife was fully retired before she was 50.

 

[The New Holliday]

Unions are for stupid people who are too dumb to negotiate their own terms of employment.

I have never been in a union.

My wife has never been in a union.

I was semi-retired since before I was 50; fully retired by 55.

My wife was fully retired before she was 50.

WoW !...Just WoW!

Those posts were retarded even for yous guys.

PS: Not to mention boring as shit, which I nearly forgot to mention.
. Though really it should go w/o saying.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I have never been in a union.

My wife has never been in a union.

I was semi-retired since before I was 50; fully retired by 55.

My wife was fully retired before she was 50.

I worked two jobs. For LTL carriers. One was union. One was not. Exact same job. The pay was the same except union job took union dues but union dues also meant vested pension after 5 years. But other jobs sans union have 5 year vested pensions too.

Non union job was better for me. I can't speak to everyone and everything but the union job had only 3 shifts (8am-4pm, 4pm-12am, 12am-8am) and if not enough work was available to get on on a shift then you were on a call board waiting for a phone call to work until a bid came up whereby people could change shifts and they added more people to the shifts.

The non union job was a 24/7 operation too but they had multiple shifts, practically one starting every hour. 8pm-4am, 9pm-5am, 10pm-6am, 11pm-7am, 12am-8am, 1am-9am, 2am-10am, and lastly 3am-11am. And that is just night/third shifts.

Union does have its benefits but having a union contract also means the company has less flexibility. The union company had 3 set shifts only and that was probably in the contract. Also, if they asked for overtime during a shift, it was either 1 hour over or 3 hours over, so that was in contract too. Anything over 8 hours a day was overtime in the contract.

The non union company created multiple shifts and were able to employ more people on shifts and they didn't even have a call board. Just part time workers for busier weekends. Had to be over 40 hours in a week for overtime pay. You could easily work 12 hours instead of 8 in one shift because it wasn't overtime unless over 40 for the week.

For the union job you had to start part time on the call board and keep hoping for a shift to go full time. For the non union job you could work part time when busy like weekends or go full time on a shift right away.

Non union companies have more flexibility because once the contract is in place, that's it. If the contract says only full time and work slows down, the company must beg the union to take pay cuts or have part time.

I'm on the fence with unions. They are a tool but the tool can easily be a knife that self inflicts blood letting.

Yes. Workers should have rights. But should workers have enough rights to say no we will not take a pay cut even though work is slow, thereby fucking their own asses as they sink the titanic they are iceberging?

The people who started the company spent more blood, sweat & tears than the worker can ever realize.

Making the worker an equal partner without making them pay for the blood, sweat & tears of the creation of what normally will fail (because 7 out of 10 businesses do fail)... is where I have questions.

And the people who think every job should be a union job don't have that answer.

I will leave you with this...

Lily runs a househould. She realizes she can't do it all herself. So she hires help. Someone to clean. Now, the cleaner wants to go union. Lily just wanted someone to clean and she puts out there what all needs cleaning but the contract states what will be cleaned, when it will be cleaned, how it will be cleaned and heaven forbid, Lily sees a spot the cleaner missed, because if Lily takes it upon herself to clean that spot, holy mary mother of jesus, she just broke the contract by stealing work from the cleaner.

If I am a unionized worker in Lily's household then I am an equal member of the household. Per the contract. Is this okay? I am seriously asking? You want debate? Debate this.

If yoga is the definition of flexibility then unionization is the opposite of that.

No offense to blind union lovers. But as Trinity told Neo in Matrix, "It's the question that drives us, Neo."

I'm not hating a union. I'm just asking questions. As any self respecting skeptic should.

 

[Murdy]

There was a time we needed unions because laborers were poor and being taken advantage of, exploited, underpaid and worked like dogs into the ground.

Read Upton Sinclare’s The Jungle… then I’ll debate you.

 

[LotusBud]

Of course, but they like to say they aren't till they are again. It's just one of the many lies the "new" conservative likes to tell.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Oh, dear. I imagine the agency has no chance with the current SCOTUS.

 

[LotusBud]

I worked two jobs. For LTL carriers. One was union. One was not. Exact same job. The pay was the same except union job took union dues but union dues also meant vested pension after 5 years. But other jobs sans union have 5 year vested pensions too.

Non union job was better for me. I can't speak to everyone and everything but the union job had only 3 shifts (8am-4pm, 4pm-12am, 12am-8am) and if not enough work was available to get on on a shift then you were on a call board waiting for a phone call to work until a bid came up whereby people could change shifts and they added more people to the shifts.

The non union job was a 24/7 operation too but they had multiple shifts, practically one starting every hour. 8pm-4am, 9pm-5am, 10pm-6am, 11pm-7am, 12am-8am, 1am-9am, 2am-10am, and lastly 3am-11am. And that is just night/third shifts.

Union does have its benefits but having a union contract also means the company has less flexibility. The union company had 3 set shifts only and that was probably in the contract. Also, if they asked for overtime during a shift, it was either 1 hour over or 3 hours over, so that was in contract too. Anything over 8 hours a day was overtime in the contract.

The non union company created multiple shifts and were able to employ more people on shifts and they didn't even have a call board. Just part time workers for busier weekends. Had to be over 40 hours in a week for overtime pay. You could easily work 12 hours instead of 8 in one shift because it wasn't overtime unless over 40 for the week.

For the union job you had to start part time on the call board and keep hoping for a shift to go full time. For the non union job you could work part time when busy like weekends or go full time on a shift right away.

Non union companies have more flexibility because once the contract is in place, that's it. If the contract says only full time and work slows down, the company must beg the union to take pay cuts or have part time.

I'm on the fence with unions. They are a tool but the tool can easily be a knife that self inflicts blood letting.

Yes. Workers should have rights. But should workers have enough rights to say no we will not take a pay cut even though work is slow, thereby fucking their own asses as they sink the titanic they are iceberging?

The people who started the company spent more blood, sweat & tears than the worker can ever realize.

Making the worker an equal partner without making them pay for the blood, sweat & tears of the creation of what normally will fail (because 7 out of 10 businesses do fail)... is where I have questions.

And the people who think every job should be a union job don't have that answer.

I will leave you with this...

Lily runs a househould. She realizes she can't do it all herself. So she hires help. Someone to clean. Now, the cleaner wants to go union. Lily just wanted someone to clean and she puts out there what all needs cleaning but the contract states what will be cleaned, when it will be cleaned, how it will be cleaned and heaven forbid, Lily sees a spot the cleaner missed, because if Lily takes it upon herself to clean that spot, holy mary mother of jesus, she just broke the contract by stealing work from the cleaner.

If I am a unionized worker in Lily's household then I am an equal member of the household. Per the contract. Is this okay? I am seriously asking? You want debate? Debate this.

If yoga is the definition of flexibility then unionization is the opposite of that.

No offense to blind union lovers. But as Trinity told Neo in Matrix, "It's the question that drives us, Neo."

I'm not hating a union. I'm just asking questions. As any self respecting skeptic should.

The non-union job pays the same as the union job BECAUSE of the union. PERIOD. Without the unions, now and in the past, workers would be getting even more screwed than they already are. FUCKING MIC DROP.

 

[Seamajor]

Unions are for stupid people who are too dumb to negotiate their own terms of employment.

Still searching for health insurance? Stuck in Chicago? I belonged to a Union for 20 years. IBEW local 6, and local 551. Served a free apprenticeship for 5 years. Learned a trade valuable in any country. Started my own company, and hired only Union people. Served everyone well. Best of luck Reggie.

 

[LotusBud]

Still searching for health insurance? Stuck in Chicago? I belonged to a Union for 20 years. IBEW local 6, and local 551. Served a free apprenticeship for 5 years. Learned a trade valuable in any country. Started my own company, and hired only Union people. Served everyone well. Best of luck Reggie.

I spent somewhere around 8-10 years of my time as an adjunct professor as a union organizer. I have zero repect for people who diss unions, and I have negative zero respect for people who do it even though they have no actual factual info about unions.

 

[The Prowler]

Unions are for weak people who cannot stand on their own two feet.

Prove your worth to a company and they will pay you accordingly.

A union would do nothing for someone like me expect hold me back.

 

[The New Holliday]

Prove your worth to a company and they will pay you accordingly.

.. Nope - companies these days do not hire the best or most worthy, they hire the cheapest, and I say this having watch this process over a period of 4-5 decades - watching good paying manufacturing jobs turn into minimum wage jobs filled by unskilled, compliant immigrant labor. The decline of unions is concurrent with that process.

 

[The Prowler]

.. Nope - companies these days do not hire the best or most worthy, they hire the cheapest, and I say this having watch this process over a period of 4-5 decades - watching good paying manufacturing jobs turn into minimum wage jobs filled by unskilled, compliant immigrant labor. The decline of unions is concurrent with that process.

The first step is to learn a skill so that your job is not one that can be filled by unskilled immigrant labour.

It is funny that you mentioned "immigrant labor", though. The Leftists here all claim that immigrants are necessary.

Well what jobs do you think they are going to do?

You force immigration. Then you force companies to hire based on diversity and inclusion, not based on skill. And then companies say "Our shitty workers are only worth this much (less than they were paid historically)." and unions have been put in a position where they have to agree. So what good are unions when they have to agree and say "Yeah, our workers are shit."?

Leftist uncontrolled immigration has flooded the unskilled job market, so Americans should be focused on the skilled job market.

BTW, it is shameful that you have blamed this on the poor, unskilled immigrants. So much hate.

 

[The New Holliday]

The Leftists here all claim that immigrants are necessary

There's commies here?! Where? - I'll tear em appaaaht. I'll rip em limb from limb.

BTW, it is shameful that you have blamed this on the poor, unskilled immigrants

I don't do any such thing - I blame conservative businessmen/corporations for thinking of nothing but stuffing the money in the pocket.

 

[The Prowler]

I don't do any such thing

Oh.....

turn into minimum wage jobs filled by unskilled, compliant immigrant labor

It just looks that way then.....

 

[Lily]

There's commies here?! Where? - I'll tear em appaaaht. I'll rip em limb from limb.


I don't do any such thing - I blame conservative businessmen/corporations for thinking of nothing but stuffing the money in the pocket.

He addressed comments in isolation of the very clear discussion that is taking place within a thread. The very title of this thread includes the term "anti-corporate". He does this often for the pursuit of some imaginary win somewhere that no one else recognizes.

 

[The New Holliday]

Oh.....



It just looks that way then.....

Yes - to someone who can't read or think.
.. I do not blame anyone for accepting a job they are offered,
I do blame those who engineer the displacement of skilled native workers, with unskilled immigrant workers.
. It's not only the replacement of workers by cheaper equal labor - there is a reduction in quality of workmanship.
Shit, dude that even extends to people who can barely make themselves intelligible in a common language.
...and it isn't Liberals, it's conservatives that support this - and of course that does include Democrats, so don't say BUT BUT BUT DEmocrats this or that..

 

[Lily]

Yes - to someone who can't read or think.
.. I do not blame anyone for accepting a job they are offered,
I do blame those who engineer the displacement of skilled native workers, with unskilled immigrant workers.
. It's not only the replacement of workers by cheaper equal labor - there is a reduction in quality of workmanship.
Shit, dude that even extends to people who can barely make themselves intelligible in a common language.
...and it isn't Liberals, it's conservatives that support this - and of course that does include Democrats, so don't say BUT BUT BUT DEmocrats this or that..

Until we sanction employers, and severely, for hiring unskilled and illegal labor, this will not change. But the donor class has the corporatists, in both parties, in their pockets.

 

[The Prowler]

Yes - to someone who can't read or think.
.. I do not blame anyone for accepting a job they are offered,
I do blame those who engineer the displacement of skilled native workers, with unskilled immigrant workers.
. It's not only the replacement of workers by cheaper equal labor - there is a reduction in quality of workmanship.
Shit, dude that even extends to people who can barely make themselves intelligible in a common language.
...and it isn't Liberals, it's conservatives that support this - and of course that does include Democrats, so don't say BUT BUT BUT DEmocrats this or that..

Okay, so you are blaming immigrants and the Democrats.

BTW, if unskilled immigrants are not going to be placed in unskilled jobs, just where did you think they should work?

 

[The Prowler]

for hiring unskilled and illegal labor

Wow.

Even @Lily is bashing the immigrants.

Build The Wall!!!

 

[MrNiceGuy]

The non-union job pays the same as the union job BECAUSE of the union. PERIOD. Without the unions, now and in the past, workers would be getting even more screwed than they already are. FUCKING MIC DROP.

Jobs are paid by supply & demand. A company in an area full of similar companies will pay more to retain same candidates vs company alone in an area.

Union companies in an area only affect non union companies within the same area.

Union dues need to be subtracted from wages so equal union pay & no union pay means less pay through union because union pay is less BECAUSE OF DUES MIC DROP.

Lova ya girl, but math...

Maths.