Traditional electoralism is useless

Garraty_47

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Neither half of the duopoly is serious about peace or delivering relief for citizens instead of supporting imperialism and bowing to special and corporate interests. That includes the bloviating moron who says a few of the quiet parts out loud but only when it serves his own personal interests.

#TranscendTheDuopoly

 

Frood

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I'd be happy if these fuckheads simply abided by the Constitution and BoR's instead of selling out to globalist cocksuckers and the equally cocksucking CCP...
 

Blazor

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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.
 

LotusBud

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3rd party candidate who gets votes the opposing team might otherwise have gotten:

*yawn*

3rd party candidate who gets votes my team might otherwise have gotten:

"SPOILER EFFECT!"
"GRIFT!"
"DEMOCRACY IS DYING!"
"RUUUSSIAAAAAAAA!"
Instant Runoff Voting, or Ranked Choice Voting, is the only answer to the fucking mess the US has become. That, AND zero corporate dollars in the system.
 

Biggie Smiles

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Instant Runoff Voting, or Ranked Choice Voting, is the only answer to the fucking mess the US has become. That, AND zero corporate dollars in the system.
and should THAT system, properly employed to the specifications you suggest, produce a result such a Trump getting re-elected or Desantis becoming president what will be your position?

would you accept the outcome or demand it be changed again until the chips stack up to your liking?
 
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Garraty_47

Garraty_47

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Instant Runoff Voting, or Ranked Choice Voting, is the only answer to the fucking mess the US has become. That, AND zero corporate dollars in the system.

I'm all for ending the legalized bribery that is our current political contribution/lobbying system. For any other reforms to actually work that has to be a prerequisite.

Ranked choice voting is another brilliant idea; it eliminates the spoiler effect and much of the obscene power over the voting process now in the greedy psychopathic hands of the duopoly.

I would also add getting rid of the electoral college.
The argument that it "evens the field" between states that have low and high populations is asinine, to put it mildly. These are national elections -not local or state elections- and the results affect everyone equally; giving low-population states an oversized influence on outcomes is the opposite of fair. The election is the election... anything else is pure unadulterated tampering to nullify the will of the people.
 

LotusBud

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I'm all for ending the legalized bribery that is our current political contribution/lobbying system. For any other reforms to actually work that has to be a prerequisite.

Ranked choice voting is another brilliant idea; it eliminates the spoiler effect and much of the obscene power over the voting process now in the greedy psychopathic hands of the duopoly.

I would also add getting rid of the electoral college.
The argument that it "evens the field" between states that have low and high populations is asinine, to put it mildly. These are national elections -not local or state elections- and the results affect everyone equally; giving low-population states an oversized influence on outcomes is the opposite of fair. The election is the election... anything else is pure unadulterated tampering to nullify the will of the people.
Yes. The electoral college is absurd. It's evil, really.
 

Biggie Smiles

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What exactly is “evil” about giving each state a say in a federation of states?
 
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Garraty_47

Garraty_47

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What exactly is “evil” about giving each state a say in a federation of states?

States don't vote.
People do.

States are merely constructs; arbitrary borders that only serve one purpose: to delineate which things are inside the arbitrary border or outside it. States don't need a "voice" in government because they only exist on paper. They don't breathe or eat or any of the other things actual living beings do. A person living in one state is fundamentally no different than someone living in another state. There's been no speciation, no biological adaptations that separate inhabitants of one state from the inhabitants of another state.

People are essentially the same as other people no matter where they live.

A vote is a vote is a vote.

If all votes aren't equally valid and equally consequential then the whole process is rigged and doesn't deserve to be called any sort of "democracy". It's tyranny by a minority and deserves to get burnt down.

Power to the people; not only *some* of the people- All of them.
 
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Oerdin

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States are the recognized legal body which make up the federation. Fact. Ignore it all you want but that is reality.
 

LotusBud

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States don't vote.
People do.

States are merely constructs; arbitrary borders that only serve one purpose: to delineate which things are inside the arbitrary border or outside it. States don't need a "voice" in government because they only exist on paper. They don't breathe or eat or any of the other things actual living beings do. A person living in one state is fundamentally no different than someone living in another state. There's been no speciation, no biological adaptations that separate inhabitants of one state from the inhabitants of another state.

People are essentially the same as other people no matter where they live.

A vote is a vote is a vote.

If all votes aren't equally valid and equally consequential then the whole process is rigged and doesn't deserve to be call any sort of "democracy". It's tyranny by a minority and deserves to get burnt down.

Power to the people; not only *some* of the people- All of them.
Yup. There are plenty of people who have voted both in small, underpopulated states and in populous states. They are not different, less valuable people when they move from Kansas to New York. The whole idea is absurd, and any value it once had has long since been obliterated by modernity.
 

Biggie Smiles

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So when you get done disovlimg the electoral college and turn the United States into the United people how exactly do you ensure that the three most densely populated areas of the country don’t control the outcome of every presidential election for the next 1000 years?
 
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Garraty_47

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So?
The president represents all voters.
Not only the ones in Montana or Wyoming or North Dakota.
Everyone.

That's why everyone should have an equal say.

Cities don't vote.
People do.
There are lots of people in cities... that's kind of the point of having cities.
There are people of all different political persuasions living in cities.
They should all have an equal voice in choosing a president.

If your argument is that you're afraid allowing actual democracy to happen will dilute your favorite political party's power, I say maybe it needs to be diluted. If a party has to rig and gerrymander and manipulate elections in order to hold onto power... they do not deserve any power.

Whether it's staging a sham primary to elevate a pre-selected candidate or establishing national election rules that favor a certain ideology it's all election tampering and can eat a big bag of dicks, choking to death on the last one.

Power to ALL the people.
 

LotusBud

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So?
The president represents all voters.
Not only the ones in Montana or Wyoming or North Dakota.
Everyone.

That's why everyone should have an equal say.

Cities don't vote.
People do.
There are lots of people in cities... that's kind of the point of having cities.
There are people of all different political persuasions living in cities.
They should all have an equal voice in choosing a president.

If your argument is that you're afraid allowing actual democracy to happen will dilute your favorite political party's power, I say maybe it needs to be diluted. If a party has to rig and gerrymander and manipulate elections in order to hold onto power... they do not deserve any power.

Whether it's staging a sham primary to elevate a pre-selected candidate or establishing national election rules that favor a certain ideology it's all election tampering and can eat a big bag of dicks, choking to death on the last one.

Power to ALL the people.
There is no cogent argument for keeping the electoral college. They're just throwing shit on th ceiling.
 

Biggie Smiles

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Power to ALL the people.
But it's not going to end up being power to all the people

it's going to end up being power to the geographic areas with the highest density in population. Those areas will get the most attention from the federal government via the prevailing administration and less populous states will get the shaft. that's why asswipes like lotusbraindead want the electoral college dissolved. She knows full well that the popular vote will more easily be tampered with an produce leftist presidents for decades to come. At the very least the electoral college has shown to produce varying results over the course of history

What's the answer if the electoral college goes bust? Everyone move to California, New York and New Jersey? And what happens to all those states with low population density but high agricultural output?

Again, we are a federation of states, not a federation of people. that's exactly why we are the United states, not the United People. The electoral college may not be perfect but suggest a system that ensures each one of the 50 states has a proper voice and I'll be on board. Lotusbirdbrains rhetoric of the electoral college being evil because it supposedly catered to slave states hundreds of years ago just isn't going to cut it as an answer
 

LotusBud

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But it's not going to end up being power to all the people

it's going to end up being power to the geographic areas with the highest density in population. Those areas will get the most attention from the federal government via the prevailing administration and less populous states will get the shaft. that's why asswipes like lotusbraindead want the electoral college dissolved. She knows full well that the popular vote will more easily be tampered with an produce leftist presidents for decades to come. At the very least the electoral college has shown to produce varying results over the course of history

What's the answer if the electoral college goes bust? Everyone move to California, New York and New Jersey? And what happens to all those states with low population density but high agricultural output?

Again, we are a federation of states, not a federation of people. that's exactly why we are the United states, not the United People. The electoral college may not be perfect but suggest a system that ensures each one of the 50 states has a proper voice and I'll be on board. Lotusbirdbrains rhetoric of the electoral college being evil because it supposedly catered to slave states hundreds of years ago just isn't going to cut it as an answer
In other words, power to the majority. Imagine that.
 

Dove

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So?
The president represents all voters.
Not only the ones in Montana or Wyoming or North Dakota.
Everyone.

That's why everyone should have an equal say.

Cities don't vote.
People do.
There are lots of people in cities... that's kind of the point of having cities.
There are people of all different political persuasions living in cities.
They should all have an equal voice in choosing a president.

If your argument is that you're afraid allowing actual democracy to happen will dilute your favorite political party's power, I say maybe it needs to be diluted. If a party has to rig and gerrymander and manipulate elections in order to hold onto power... they do not deserve any power.

Whether it's staging a sham primary to elevate a pre-selected candidate or establishing national election rules that favor a certain ideology it's all election tampering and can eat a big bag of dicks, choking to death on the last one.

Power to ALL the people.

So that gives us less say and less rights.

I dont WANT to be under one government controlled by the majority of the country.

That's gang rape, Vit. A gang rape is just democracy in action.

We get rid of states and we have ONE body calling the shots for all of us so the next time mass hysteria takes hold there is no balance. We can lose autonomy and the government will be telling us what medical interventions we have to have and how to raise our children.

The entire reasons we have counties within states is so everyone has their say.

Get rid of that? Fuck it. We will be third world authoritarian shit hole in a year. The ONLY reason we arent right now is because the balance of powers. We are losing that now anyway.

When taxes are optional I'll go ahead and let strangers make all my decisions for me. I'm not paying for a country that I dont get a say in.
 
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Dove

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In other words, power to the majority. Imagine that.

No shit.

Like when 8 men decide to fuck a woman but she doesnt want to. The majority wins.

I think you guys think this sounds good but dont really ....REALLY know what it means.

You love to talk about how stupid and hysterical people are so yeah sounds like a great idea to replace our individual rights with the will of herd of insane cattle.

How is that abortion law in Portugal where you cannot get one past 12 weeks? Which is stricter than red states in the US yet somehow far less offensive?

No one is supposed to have power over anyone. A concept lost.
 
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Seamajor

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Thanks to the Electoral College, fatso was elected, even though he lost by 3 million actual votes.
 

Biggie Smiles

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If only we had a system which could ensure on libtards get elected
 
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Garraty_47

Garraty_47

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But it's not going to end up being power to all the people

it's going to end up being power to the geographic areas with the highest density in population. Those areas will get the most attention from the federal government via the prevailing administration and less populous states will get the shaft. that's why asswipes like lotusbraindead want the electoral college dissolved. She knows full well that the popular vote will more easily be tampered with an produce leftist presidents for decades to come. At the very least the electoral college has shown to produce varying results over the course of history

What's the answer if the electoral college goes bust? Everyone move to California, New York and New Jersey? And what happens to all those states with low population density but high agricultural output?

Again, we are a federation of states, not a federation of people. that's exactly why we are the United states, not the United People. The electoral college may not be perfect but suggest a system that ensures each one of the 50 states has a proper voice and I'll be on board. Lotusbirdbrains rhetoric of the electoral college being evil because it supposedly catered to slave states hundreds of years ago just isn't going to cut it as an answer

Geographic areas don't vote.
People do.

Either every vote counts equally or the whole thing is a scam.
 
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Garraty_47

Garraty_47

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So that gives us less say and less rights.

I dont WANT to be under one government controlled by the majority of the country.

That's gang rape, Vit. A gang rape is just democracy in action.

We get rid of states and we have ONE body calling the shots for all of us so the next time mass hysteria takes hold there is no balance. We can lose autonomy and the government will be telling us what medical interventions we have to have and how to raise our children.

The entire reasons we have counties within states is so everyone has their say.

Get rid of that? Fuck it. We will be third world authoritarian shit hole in a year. The ONLY reason we arent right now is because the balance of powers. We are losing that now anyway.

When taxes are optional I'll go ahead and let strangers make all my decisions for me. I'm not paying for a country that I dont get a say in.

So you only want *enough* democracy to allow the game to be rigged in your ideology's favor?

That hardly seems fair.
 

Biggie Smiles

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So you only want *enough* democracy to allow the game to be rigged in your ideology's favor?

That hardly seems fair.
how is it rigged in my ideologies favor?

Take the last 50 years of presidential elections as a bucket and let's start with Jimmy carter

Jimmy carter 4 years democrat
Ronald reagan 8 years republican
George BUsh 4 years republican
BIll clinton 8 years democrat
George bush jr 8 years republican
Barack Obama 8 years democrat
Donald Trump 4 years republican
Joe BIden 4 years democrat

Essentially from 1977 to now we've had a total of 28 years of republican and 24 years of Democrat leadership. That looks pretty near even to me.

Now lets look at the numbers if we went with Lotusbirdbrain's mob rule philosophy. We'd come up with 16 years of republican leadership as a opposed to 32 years of democrats holding the presidential office. The obvious bias and why vermin scum like lotus want to dissolve the electoral college so badly becomes even more apparent when you take into consideration that from 2008 onward the popular majority has favored democrats exclusively.

Coincidence that this popular majority leaning in favor of democrat scum is happening right around the time of the tech dominance over what we see, hear and read? I think not. People are being programmed and they know it and now they want a system which will allow for their programmatic efforts to pay in dividends. The data and obvious history here do not lie my friend.

With numbers like these You'd hardly be able to make a case for the electoral college being "rigged" by any standard unless you filed in some Kangaroo court presided over by a complete imbecile like Lotus or seamoron.

I on the other hand can most certainly make a case for a "rigged" election when you had a mysterious pandemic being released by a lab on an election year. Which very conveniently changed voting rules in the majority of battleground states which resulted in a mummy who never left his basement getting more popular votes than any president in history. A significant portion of those votes just pouring in during the wee hours of the morning in key battleground states under very questionable circumstance.

So, my friend, there certainly is some "rigging" going on, we have no debate there but it most certainly has nothing to do with the tenants of the electoral college.
 
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