Is Dovey Pregnant?

[Dove]

 

[The Scoundrel]

You'll notice I said first scan. Try getting a zygote to survive. That's the difference. Zygote not baby.

 

[Dove]

You'll notice I said first scan. Try getting a zygote to survive. That's the difference. Zygote not baby.

Scoundral by the time you get enough hormone in your system to detect pregnancy you are way past the zygote stage. Past the embryo stage. Into the fetal stage.

Abortions are not even possible until 8 weeks. 8 gestational weeks you have a fully formed human being who only has to get fat for a few more months.

 

[The Scoundrel]

8 gestational weeks you have a fully formed human

Yeah we had a baby at 8 weeks. We called him splat.

 

[Dove]

8 gestational weeks you have a fully formed human

Yeah we had a baby at 8 weeks. We called him splat.

We are coming from different premises here. You are saying that any human in utero who can not yet survive outside of the uterus can be aborted.

I'm saying that any human in utero who completely the pregnancy process by fertilizing AND implanting should have fundamental rights to life.

So we are argue past eachother.

Am I right? That's your premise, right?

 

[The Scoundrel]

How did you figure that as my premise? That's not what I said. I said that if at the first scan there is a reason you don't want the baby then you should be able to abort. This would prove to be a very rare case if emergency contraception was used. I don't agree that a bundle of cells implanted in a womb has fundemental human rights. It's 2022 fer fucks sake. Barefoot and pregnant was never a good look.

 

[Dove]

How did you figure that as my premise? That's not what I said. I said that if at the first scan there is a reason you don't want the baby then you should be able to abort. This would prove to be a very rare case if emergency contraception was used. I don't agree that a bundle of cells implanted in a womb has fundemental human rights. It's 2022 fer fucks sake. Barefoot and pregnant was never a good look.

Your 20 week arguement.

Its 2022 so the bundle of cells thing is outdated, Scoundral. Everything alive is a bundle of cells.

Okay so you think abortion is permissible if defects are seen?

 

[The Scoundrel]

Your 20 week arguement.



Okay so you think abortion is permissible if defects are seen?

I trolled you with 20 weeks dumbass. The vast majority of this issue would be solved with emergency contraception (abortion) but if, at the first scan for whatever reason the mother decides against having a child then extinguishing a non sentient zygote is fine by me.

 

[Omnipotent]

Like how we have emergency contraception

Are you for or against that. Think carefully now. The bases are loaded.

I've always been very for it.

People who oppose abortion are not opposed to contraceptives at all. There is a fringe of people who are but they are a fringe.

The politcal tactics are to use the fringe as if it's the official consensus stance.....its absolutely not.

There is a lot of abortion propaganda and the whole "they are coming for your contraception" is a biggy.

Most rape victims either go and get Plan B or they get it as part of a rape kit. The ones who end up in an abortion clinic due to rape and trafficking are being taken in BY their abusers. And it goes unreported. Its fucking nasty. The women who do show up on their own and report rape are a very small percentage. That small percent are the only ones the clinics report.

Young children (victims of incest),arent going to say they are pregnant because they wouldn't know they were pregnant until it's too late.

There are many reasons people pursue abortion. Not just fully grown women and no one should be making little girls go through a full pregnancy where these days they have safe help.

There are change of life babies that have terrible birth defects. Those middle aged women shouldn't have to deliver handicapped children.

Years ago I met a girl at a party who told me her parents went to jail for 3 months. It was over their 15 year old having a stillborn. The baby was buried in the backyard... Anyway, a few years later one of the other siblings told someone who told the police and the parents got blamed for not reporting the still birth... that is the type of thing that will start happening in the USA now.

There is going to be that much seriously sad trouble with this law reversal... you weren't even born 50 yrs ago so you don't realise what real horrors went on before. If you think an abortion is a horror... wait until you see what's up next.

 

[Joe]

I don't doubt it whatsoever. What woman in her right mind would be interested in that?

The personality traits of Incels like @The Prowler are highly noticeable.

They like to antagonize women in lieu of their lack of social skills with them & feelings of inadequacy. And then they boast about their material possessions & imaginary glamorous & non-existent lifestyle to compensate for these shortcomings. It's often due to a disability or mental illness.

The Prowler's counterpart is a guy named Eddy over at VF whom @The Countess is very familiar with & has put in his place many a time.

What about when a group of people target a woman and attempt to use real life information to lie about that woman because they cant debate her stances respectfully so they attempt to run her off a forum. And use slut shaming, a defeated drug addiction, her family, et?

What about men calling a woman an ignorant slut or disgusting pig without provocation because they cant address the point?

Why do you guys feel like all the hatefulness is acceptable? And that other people are pricks if they just take jabs right back? That's the funny part. That you guys want to be insulting and patronizing towards others without any response to that.

Kinda like how Admin does nothing....absolutely nothing. ...besides shit post and insults people but yet it's Big who responds to Admins repetitive and insulting shit posts with no mercy who is complained about.

I never do that to you @Dove.

However I do critique your arguments which is separate from attacking you the person.

I think you have to get away from the notion that a person has to agree with you 100% of the time. Sometimes I agree with you & other times I don't. Likewise sometimes I agree with the Left but other times I think they are off their rocker and lack common sense.

..but apparently so does the Right.

 

[Omnipotent]

Your 20 week arguement.



Okay so you think abortion is permissible if defects are seen?

I trolled you with 20 weeks dumbass. The vast majority of this issue would be solved with emergency contraception (abortion) but if, at the first scan for whatever reason the mother decides against having a child then extinguishing a non sentient zygote is fine by me.

Those scans also can cause miscarriages especially in the first trimester.

 

[Dove]

I don't doubt it whatsoever. What woman in her right mind would be interested in that?

The personality traits of Incels like @The Prowler are highly noticeable.

They like to antagonize women in lieu of their lack of social skills with them & feelings of inadequacy. And then they boast about their material possessions & imaginary glamorous & non-existent lifestyle to compensate for these shortcomings. It's often due to a disability or mental illness.

The Prowler's counterpart is a guy named Eddy over at VF whom @The Countess is very familiar with & has put in his place many a time.

What about when a group of people target a woman and attempt to use real life information to lie about that woman because they cant debate her stances respectfully so they attempt to run her off a forum. And use slut shaming, a defeated drug addiction, her family, et?

What about men calling a woman an ignorant slut or disgusting pig without provocation because they cant address the point?

Why do you guys feel like all the hatefulness is acceptable? And that other people are pricks if they just take jabs right back? That's the funny part. That you guys want to be insulting and patronizing towards others without any response to that.

Kinda like how Admin does nothing....absolutely nothing. ...besides shit post and insults people but yet it's Big who responds to Admins repetitive and insulting shit posts with no mercy who is complained about.

I never do that to you @Dove.

However I do critique your arguments which is separate from attacking you the person.

I think you have to get away from the notion that a person has to agree with you 100% of the time. Sometimes I agree with you & other times I don't. Likewise sometimes I agree with the Left but other times I think they are off their rocker and lack common sense.

..but apparently so does the Right.

Joe when you give an arguement that is factually wrong and I'm showing you why its wrong.....and you ignore it and just stick with the same arguments it's really frustrating and yes....kinda insulting Joe.

And then when you do that and tell ME that I'm the one who expects 100 percent agreement it's pretty frustrating. Because I'm watching you ignore and dismiss critical info because you dont want to alter your stance.

Everyone has biases and blind spots but today too many people dont want to recognize their own. On an intellectual level we are handicapped as fuck. Normally you are able to be very balanced but certain things you really go off a bias deep end and become very hard to talk to.

 

[Joe]

I don't doubt it whatsoever. What woman in her right mind would be interested in that?

The personality traits of Incels like @The Prowler are highly noticeable.

They like to antagonize women in lieu of their lack of social skills with them & feelings of inadequacy. And then they boast about their material possessions & imaginary glamorous & non-existent lifestyle to compensate for these shortcomings. It's often due to a disability or mental illness.

The Prowler's counterpart is a guy named Eddy over at VF whom @The Countess is very familiar with & has put in his place many a time.

What about when a group of people target a woman and attempt to use real life information to lie about that woman because they cant debate her stances respectfully so they attempt to run her off a forum. And use slut shaming, a defeated drug addiction, her family, et?

What about men calling a woman an ignorant slut or disgusting pig without provocation because they cant address the point?

Why do you guys feel like all the hatefulness is acceptable? And that other people are pricks if they just take jabs right back? That's the funny part. That you guys want to be insulting and patronizing towards others without any response to that.

Kinda like how Admin does nothing....absolutely nothing. ...besides shit post and insults people but yet it's Big who responds to Admins repetitive and insulting shit posts with no mercy who is complained about.

I never do that to you @Dove.

However I do critique your arguments which is separate from attacking you the person.

I think you have to get away from the notion that a person has to agree with you 100% of the time. Sometimes I agree with you & other times I don't. Likewise sometimes I agree with the Left but other times I think they are off their rocker and lack common sense.

..but apparently so does the Right.

Joe when you give an arguement that is factually wrong and I'm showing you why its wrong.....and you ignore it and just stick with the same arguments it's really frustrating and yes....kinda insulting Joe.

And then when you do that and tell ME that I'm the one who expects 100 percent agreement it's pretty frustrating. Because I'm watching you ignore and dismiss critical info because you dont want to alter your stance.

Everyone has biases and blind spots but today too many people dont want to recognize their own. On an intellectual level we are handicapped as fuck. Normally you are able to be very balanced but certain things you really go off a bias deep end and become very hard to talk to.

But I feel you have made some factually incorrect statements about abortion. Namely that men usually control the pro choice debate and pressure women to have abortions.

I think a number of women in this forum have disagreed with you on this point.

 

[Dove]

Like how we have emergency contraception

Are you for or against that. Think carefully now. The bases are loaded.

I've always been very for it.

People who oppose abortion are not opposed to contraceptives at all. There is a fringe of people who are but they are a fringe.

The politcal tactics are to use the fringe as if it's the official consensus stance.....its absolutely not.

There is a lot of abortion propaganda and the whole "they are coming for your contraception" is a biggy.

Most rape victims either go and get Plan B or they get it as part of a rape kit. The ones who end up in an abortion clinic due to rape and trafficking are being taken in BY their abusers. And it goes unreported. Its fucking nasty. The women who do show up on their own and report rape are a very small percentage. That small percent are the only ones the clinics report.

Young children (victims of incest),arent going to say they are pregnant because they wouldn't know they were pregnant until it's too late.

There are many reasons people pursue abortion. Not just fully grown women and no one should be making little girls go through a full pregnancy where these days they have safe help.

There are change of life babies that have terrible birth defects. Those middle aged women shouldn't have to deliver handicapped children.

Years ago I met a girl at a party who told me her parents went to jail for 3 months. It was over their 15 year old having a stillborn. The baby was buried in the backyard... Anyway, a few years later one of the other siblings told someone who told the police and the parents got blamed for not reporting the still birth... that is the type of thing that will start happening in the USA now.

There is going to be that much seriously sad trouble with this law reversal... you weren't even born 50 yrs ago so you don't realise what real horrors went on before. If you think an abortion is a horror... wait until you see what's up next.

It's not the same world it was when Roe was decided. And it was never a law. It was a ruling that decided bans and heavy restrictions on abortion violated the Constitutional right to privacy. They reversed that decision and turned the laws over to the people.

Since Roe we have completely changed as a society. Single motherhood is not stigmatized.

Even with Roe.....birthing a stillborn at home and not reporting it and burying it in the back yard is illegal. Anytime a human being dies it has to be reported and the remains have to be either cremated or buried in grounds exclusive for that. If my mother died on the couch I cant just quietly bury her in the yard.....its the same law that I would held accountable for. You cant bury or store human remains anywhere you want, there is a process in place for health and safety reasons.

There was a case here in the states of a woman who was mentally ill addicted to meth. She had several pregnancies and each pregnancy was successfully hidden. Over the course of many years she can became pregnant 6 times, told no one, was able to hid the pregnancy AND the birth and she was giving birth in secret and strangling each newborn. She hid them in the garage next to the Christmas decorations. Not even her husband knew.

She could have gotten abortions. She didnt. She could have put them in a baby box(places that have neonatal drop off boxes where women can put the newborn and leave no questions asked).

Instead....she birthed them and strangled them.

 

[Dove]

I don't doubt it whatsoever. What woman in her right mind would be interested in that?

The personality traits of Incels like @The Prowler are highly noticeable.

They like to antagonize women in lieu of their lack of social skills with them & feelings of inadequacy. And then they boast about their material possessions & imaginary glamorous & non-existent lifestyle to compensate for these shortcomings. It's often due to a disability or mental illness.

The Prowler's counterpart is a guy named Eddy over at VF whom @The Countess is very familiar with & has put in his place many a time.

What about when a group of people target a woman and attempt to use real life information to lie about that woman because they cant debate her stances respectfully so they attempt to run her off a forum. And use slut shaming, a defeated drug addiction, her family, et?

What about men calling a woman an ignorant slut or disgusting pig without provocation because they cant address the point?

Why do you guys feel like all the hatefulness is acceptable? And that other people are pricks if they just take jabs right back? That's the funny part. That you guys want to be insulting and patronizing towards others without any response to that.

Kinda like how Admin does nothing....absolutely nothing. ...besides shit post and insults people but yet it's Big who responds to Admins repetitive and insulting shit posts with no mercy who is complained about.

I never do that to you @Dove.

However I do critique your arguments which is separate from attacking you the person.

I think you have to get away from the notion that a person has to agree with you 100% of the time. Sometimes I agree with you & other times I don't. Likewise sometimes I agree with the Left but other times I think they are off their rocker and lack common sense.

..but apparently so does the Right.

Joe when you give an arguement that is factually wrong and I'm showing you why its wrong.....and you ignore it and just stick with the same arguments it's really frustrating and yes....kinda insulting Joe.

And then when you do that and tell ME that I'm the one who expects 100 percent agreement it's pretty frustrating. Because I'm watching you ignore and dismiss critical info because you dont want to alter your stance.

Everyone has biases and blind spots but today too many people dont want to recognize their own. On an intellectual level we are handicapped as fuck. Normally you are able to be very balanced but certain things you really go off a bias deep end and become very hard to talk to.

But I feel you have made some factually incorrect statements about abortion. Namely that men usually control the pro choice debate and pressure women to have abortions.

I think a number of women in this forum have disagreed with you on this point.

And that's not factually incorrect at all. I'm literally one of those women. 3 or 4 leftwing proabortion women do not cancel out thousands of women who lived that.

And I've shown you 5 forums full of women talking about how they were pressured by the male and/or their families to get abortions.

It's a huge misogynist problem where any negative impact of abortion is completely ignored and screeched over. Oak just posted about how women grieve adoption as a way of saying "these women should have aborted and if they suffered after abortion that's okay".

You got your narratives and you wont accept any thing outside of it.

Also I showed you it was men who started NARAL and recruited feminists to market abortion. I also showed you who started and heads the pro life movement. So how is that factually wrong when i literally posted facts?

That's the thing, you wont hear or look at anything that supports what I'm saying.

Basic logic and understanding the culture we are in alone should tell you that men are absolutely not trying to "control" women and make them have children. That's unhinged and false. Modern men do NOT want to be tied down with a pregnant woman in todays hook up culture.

You agree with legal abortion and you are trying to make arguments about women in general that do NOT fit women in general. You are pretty much canceling out all women who do not fit into your view of abortion. Which is something abortion activists do the most. That's activist thinking.

 

[The Scoundrel]

Like how we have emergency contraception

Are you for or against that. Think carefully now. The bases are loaded.

I've always been very for it.

People who oppose abortion are not opposed to contraceptives at all. There is a fringe of people who are but they are a fringe.

The politcal tactics are to use the fringe as if it's the official consensus stance.....its absolutely not.

There is a lot of abortion propaganda and the whole "they are coming for your contraception" is a biggy.

Most rape victims either go and get Plan B or they get it as part of a rape kit. The ones who end up in an abortion clinic due to rape and trafficking are being taken in BY their abusers. And it goes unreported. Its fucking nasty. The women who do show up on their own and report rape are a very small percentage. That small percent are the only ones the clinics report.

Young children (victims of incest),arent going to say they are pregnant because they wouldn't know they were pregnant until it's too late.

There are many reasons people pursue abortion. Not just fully grown women and no one should be making little girls go through a full pregnancy where these days they have safe help.

There are change of life babies that have terrible birth defects. Those middle aged women shouldn't have to deliver handicapped children.

Years ago I met a girl at a party who told me her parents went to jail for 3 months. It was over their 15 year old having a stillborn. The baby was buried in the backyard... Anyway, a few years later one of the other siblings told someone who told the police and the parents got blamed for not reporting the still birth... that is the type of thing that will start happening in the USA now.

There is going to be that much seriously sad trouble with this law reversal... you weren't even born 50 yrs ago so you don't realise what real horrors went on before. If you think an abortion is a horror... wait until you see what's up next.

You do realise that was a pro abortion post don't you?

Oh. And I was born 50 years ago. Keep up youmgin.

 

[Omnipotent]

There was a stigma back in the day a 15 year old got pregnant and the men or whoever fathered the child would have been put in jail for statutory rape. Who knows why they didn't report it?... maybe they were just too broke to pay for a funeral. Maybe they didn't want their daughter's reputation destroyed. Maybe all of the above.

I think it was disgusting the parents were jailed actually but I don't know the ins and outs of that case only what I have just relayed to you now.

 

[Joe]

Whomever tells/instructs women to have abortions the pro Life crowd should start addressing the question of sustainable population growth. Your daughters won't be able to have 4 children like you did. Like it or not, be us Left or Right, we are leaving their generation with the difficult & gut wrenching decisions we and past generations we failed to make.

It won't be an easy time in the world
for your daughters when they are your age @Dove.

 

[Dove]

There was a stigma back in the day a 15 year old got pregnant and the men or whoever fathered the child would have been put in jail for statutory rape. Who knows why they didn't report it?... maybe they were just too broke to pay for a funeral. Maybe they didn't want their daughter's reputation destroyed. Maybe all of the above.

I think it was disgusting the parents were jailed actually but I don't know the ins and outs of that case only what I have just relayed to you now.

I'm sure they were jailed because we have laws on human remain disposal. For a good reason.

And if they buried it in order to protect the adult rapists they deserve jail, dont you think?

We really need to actually do something when a minor is raped and impregnated by an adult. We cant just give them abortions and move on. We dont even know what THEY want done.

A lot of women I've met in the pro life movement were pregnant teens who aborted due to family threats and pressure. And I've met many rape survivors who are trying to push back on the way people think of rape and abortion.

People should be able to be heard so we can make decisions about this that are more in line with the reality of the issue and the needs of the people it impacts. Because it's really not as simple as "it's the womans body so she can do what she wants". I mean that thinking missed the mark on so many levels....its like we are fine with abuse and coercion occurring under the report radar.

 

[Dove]

Whomever tells/instructs women to have abortions the pro Life crowd should start addressing the question of sustainable population growth. Your daughters won't be able to have 4 children like you did. Like it or not, be us Left or Right, we are leaving their generation with the difficult & gut wrenching decisions we and past generations we failed to.

It won't be an easy time in the world
for your daughters when they are your age @Dove.

I'm fully fine with people who believe the world is over populated being allowed to commit suicide.

I'm fully opposed to them using that argument to take authoritarian control over other human being forced to die or let their children be murdered or be forced into being sterile.

That's regime shit, Joe. People are fully capable of avoiding pregnancy and if abortion were banned we would see less unintended pregnancies because people would be much more careful. We have Plan B to help that as well which we didnt have years ago.

 

[Omnipotent]

Like how we have emergency contraception

Are you for or against that. Think carefully now. The bases are loaded.

I've always been very for it.

People who oppose abortion are not opposed to contraceptives at all. There is a fringe of people who are but they are a fringe.

The politcal tactics are to use the fringe as if it's the official consensus stance.....its absolutely not.

There is a lot of abortion propaganda and the whole "they are coming for your contraception" is a biggy.

Most rape victims either go and get Plan B or they get it as part of a rape kit. The ones who end up in an abortion clinic due to rape and trafficking are being taken in BY their abusers. And it goes unreported. Its fucking nasty. The women who do show up on their own and report rape are a very small percentage. That small percent are the only ones the clinics report.

Young children (victims of incest),arent going to say they are pregnant because they wouldn't know they were pregnant until it's too late.

There are many reasons people pursue abortion. Not just fully grown women and no one should be making little girls go through a full pregnancy where these days they have safe help.

There are change of life babies that have terrible birth defects. Those middle aged women shouldn't have to deliver handicapped children.

Years ago I met a girl at a party who told me her parents went to jail for 3 months. It was over their 15 year old having a stillborn. The baby was buried in the backyard... Anyway, a few years later one of the other siblings told someone who told the police and the parents got blamed for not reporting the still birth... that is the type of thing that will start happening in the USA now.

There is going to be that much seriously sad trouble with this law reversal... you weren't even born 50 yrs ago so you don't realise what real horrors went on before. If you think an abortion is a horror... wait until you see what's up next.

You do realise that was a pro abortion post don't you?

Oh. And I was born 50 years ago. Keep up youmgin.

Well I am 62 years old ago and at the tender aged of 15 and 4 months, I was talked out of an abortion by my stepfather the night before the procedure... and having a baby at 16 ruined my body forever.

If I had my baby 1 year earlier in 1975 instead of 76 he would have been forcibly taken off me.

So I have been around a lot longer than some of the younger women here and seen more horror stories. If this law in the USA isn't reversed or made sane I (like 6 weeks ffs) should say then they will be more exposed to the horrors of pregnancy gone awry.

And stupid men will not bear any of the responsibility when it is their pressure to force women to have sex with them when the women don't really want it anyway.

The only reason women can like sex nowadays is because these days they can have SAFE sex.

 

[The Scoundrel]

Really. I have to ask. Making abortion available to women who want it suddenly becomes male aggresion?

What the fuck is that about? It makes it a womans choice FFS

 

[Dove]

Really. I have to ask. Making abortion available to women who want it suddenly becomes male aggresion?

What the fuck is that about? It makes it a womans choice FFS

Men frequently coerce and pressure women to abort.

You know the leading cause of death of pregnant women is homicide.

You may not be one of those men....but that doesnt mean there are not slimey and selfish men. When I had an abortion at 9 weeks I was heavily pressured by my boyfriend. He made me feel like any objection I had would be stupid, irresponsible and selfish. A lot of women have dealt with this.

 

[Joe]

Whomever tells/instructs women to have abortions the pro Life crowd should start addressing the question of sustainable population growth. Your daughters won't be able to have 4 children like you did. Like it or not, be us Left or Right, we are leaving their generation with the difficult & gut wrenching decisions we and past generations we failed to.

It won't be an easy time in the world
for your daughters when they are your age @Dove.

I'm fully fine with people who believe the world is over populated being allowed to commit suicide.

I'm fully opposed to them using that argument to take authoritarian control over other human being forced to die or let their children be murdered or be forced into being sterile.

That's regime shit, Joe. People are fully capable of avoiding pregnancy and if abortion were banned we would see less unintended pregnancies because people would be much more careful. We have Plan B to help that as well which we didnt have years ago.

My biggest concern is that some people or groups think that marriage foreinstance, is a license to breed like the Duggars.

And I'm also concerned that members of your political persuasion may be against all forms on contraception and birth control. This is relevant with respect to issues such as funding family planning for poorer countries.

Republicans bitch & complain about brown & black people showing up at the Tijuana border wanting to barge into the US, but then they are also against funding birth control for them.

 

[Joe]

Really. I have to ask. Making abortion available to women who want it suddenly becomes male aggresion?

What the fuck is that about? It makes it a womans choice FFS

Yeah that's what I pointed out to Dove many times @Scoundrel . If men deny women an abortion we become the villain, but if we allow it, turn the other way and allow women to make their own decisions. ..we're still the villain..

Caint win I tell ya.

 

[Dove]

Whomever tells/instructs women to have abortions the pro Life crowd should start addressing the question of sustainable population growth. Your daughters won't be able to have 4 children like you did. Like it or not, be us Left or Right, we are leaving their generation with the difficult & gut wrenching decisions we and past generations we failed to.

It won't be an easy time in the world
for your daughters when they are your age @Dove.

I'm fully fine with people who believe the world is over populated being allowed to commit suicide.

I'm fully opposed to them using that argument to take authoritarian control over other human being forced to die or let their children be murdered or be forced into being sterile.

That's regime shit, Joe. People are fully capable of avoiding pregnancy and if abortion were banned we would see less unintended pregnancies because people would be much more careful. We have Plan B to help that as well which we didnt have years ago.

My biggest concern is that some people or groups think that marriage foreinstance, is a license to breed like the Duggars.

And I'm also concerned that members of your political persuasion may be against all forms on contraception and birth control. This is relevant with respect to issues such as funding family planning for poorer countries.

Republicans bitch & complain about brown & black people showing up at the Tijuana border wanting to barge into the US, but then they are also against funding birth control for them.

And why are your concerns more valid than your oppositions concerns?

Have I not addressed all of that?

So you are concerned that restricted or banned abortion will cause people to join a fringe movement like quiverfille and just crank out babies? Can you explain how that makes any sense at all? If people are gonna do that, Joe....they will do it regardless. The Duggars had all their children where abortion is legal.

Only very fringe groups oppose birth control.

And if you feel like coercion and force and abortion trauma is fringe why does your fringe matter more?

Joe American tax payers are not responsible for other countries. Why do you keep making this OUR job? To take care of other countries? WHY do we need to adopt Mexicans like pets and fund them? Really? Especailly when we could be better helping our own people?

 

[Omnipotent]

I don't doubt it whatsoever. What woman in her right mind would be interested in that?

The personality traits of Incels like @The Prowler are highly noticeable.

They like to antagonize women in lieu of their lack of social skills with them & feelings of inadequacy. And then they boast about their material possessions & imaginary glamorous & non-existent lifestyle to compensate for these shortcomings. It's often due to a disability or mental illness.

The Prowler's counterpart is a guy named Eddy over at VF whom @The Countess is very familiar with & has put in his place many a time.

What about when a group of people target a woman and attempt to use real life information to lie about that woman because they cant debate her stances respectfully so they attempt to run her off a forum. And use slut shaming, a defeated drug addiction, her family, et?

What about men calling a woman an ignorant slut or disgusting pig without provocation because they cant address the point?

Why do you guys feel like all the hatefulness is acceptable? And that other people are pricks if they just take jabs right back? That's the funny part. That you guys want to be insulting and patronizing towards others without any response to that.

Kinda like how Admin does nothing....absolutely nothing. ...besides shit post and insults people but yet it's Big who responds to Admins repetitive and insulting shit posts with no mercy who is complained about.

I never do that to you @Dove.

However I do critique your arguments which is separate from attacking you the person.

I think you have to get away from the notion that a person has to agree with you 100% of the time. Sometimes I agree with you & other times I don't. Likewise sometimes I agree with the Left but other times I think they are off their rocker and lack common sense.

..but apparently so does the Right.

Joe when you give an arguement that is factually wrong and I'm showing you why its wrong.....and you ignore it and just stick with the same arguments it's really frustrating and yes....kinda insulting Joe.

And then when you do that and tell ME that I'm the one who expects 100 percent agreement it's pretty frustrating. Because I'm watching you ignore and dismiss critical info because you dont want to alter your stance.

Everyone has biases and blind spots but today too many people dont want to recognize their own. On an intellectual level we are handicapped as fuck. Normally you are able to be very balanced but certain things you really go off a bias deep end and become very hard to talk to.

But I feel you have made some factually incorrect statements about abortion. Namely that men usually control the pro choice debate and pressure women to have abortions.

I think a number of women in this forum have disagreed with you on this point.

And that's not factually incorrect at all. I'm literally one of those women. 3 or 4 leftwing proabortion women do not cancel out thousands of women who lived that.

And I've shown you 5 forums full of women talking about how they were pressured by the male and/or their families to get abortions.

It's a huge misogynist problem where any negative impact of abortion is completely ignored and screeched over. Oak just posted about how women grieve adoption as a way of saying "these women should have aborted and if they suffered after abortion that's okay".

You got your narratives and you wont accept any thing outside of it.

Also I showed you it was men who started NARAL and recruited feminists to market abortion. I also showed you who started and heads the pro life movement. So how is that factually wrong when i literally posted facts?

That's the thing, you wont hear or look at anything that supports what I'm saying.

Basic logic and understanding the culture we are in alone should tell you that men are absolutely not trying to "control" women and make them have children. That's unhinged and false. Modern men do NOT want to be tied down with a pregnant woman in todays hook up culture.

You agree with legal abortion and you are trying to make arguments about women in general that do NOT fit women in general. You are pretty much canceling out all women who do not fit into your view of abortion. Which is something abortion activists do the most. That's activist thinking.

I personally don't agree to abortion after the 1st trimester unless it is on medical grounds.

I don't emotionalize pregnancy. I know too many women whose babies died in the 3rd trimester and they had to go through a real delivery... and a few full term stillborns too...

I think women who carry on about losing early pregnancy are embarrassing themselves. I like that women wait a healthy length of time before declaring they are pregnant and they that in case something does go wrong.

It is a very joyful time expecting a healthy WANTED child but not everyone fits in that box.

You'll see...sadly.

I thought about this a lot and I tried and tried to come up with the best prevention plan and if they really want the reduction of the abortion problem then men have to take 100% of the blame and pay for it accordingly. If they are held account by not wearing protection then THEY should be fined or something... they need a deterrent.

 

[Dove]

Really. I have to ask. Making abortion available to women who want it suddenly becomes male aggresion?

What the fuck is that about? It makes it a womans choice FFS

Yeah that's what I pointed out to Dove many times @Scoundrel . If men deny women an abortion we become the villain, but if we allow it, turn the other way and allow women to make their own decisions. ..we're still the villain..

Caint win I tell ya.

Men "denying" women abortions almost never happens. Men have no choice at all in preventing a woman from aborting.

The women who end up at abortion clinics have a male partner that doesnt want the baby. The majority. Its RARE a male is at that clinic begging FOR the baby.

See how you arent listening because you are taking it personally so you wont even hear it? Even though SO MANY women talk about it?

Let me tell you something. It's far MORE a thing to have men pressuring and coercing abortion than popping out kids like the Duggars.

 

[Dove]

I don't doubt it whatsoever. What woman in her right mind would be interested in that?

The personality traits of Incels like @The Prowler are highly noticeable.

They like to antagonize women in lieu of their lack of social skills with them & feelings of inadequacy. And then they boast about their material possessions & imaginary glamorous & non-existent lifestyle to compensate for these shortcomings. It's often due to a disability or mental illness.

The Prowler's counterpart is a guy named Eddy over at VF whom @The Countess is very familiar with & has put in his place many a time.

What about when a group of people target a woman and attempt to use real life information to lie about that woman because they cant debate her stances respectfully so they attempt to run her off a forum. And use slut shaming, a defeated drug addiction, her family, et?

What about men calling a woman an ignorant slut or disgusting pig without provocation because they cant address the point?

Why do you guys feel like all the hatefulness is acceptable? And that other people are pricks if they just take jabs right back? That's the funny part. That you guys want to be insulting and patronizing towards others without any response to that.

Kinda like how Admin does nothing....absolutely nothing. ...besides shit post and insults people but yet it's Big who responds to Admins repetitive and insulting shit posts with no mercy who is complained about.

I never do that to you @Dove.

However I do critique your arguments which is separate from attacking you the person.

I think you have to get away from the notion that a person has to agree with you 100% of the time. Sometimes I agree with you & other times I don't. Likewise sometimes I agree with the Left but other times I think they are off their rocker and lack common sense.

..but apparently so does the Right.

Joe when you give an arguement that is factually wrong and I'm showing you why its wrong.....and you ignore it and just stick with the same arguments it's really frustrating and yes....kinda insulting Joe.

And then when you do that and tell ME that I'm the one who expects 100 percent agreement it's pretty frustrating. Because I'm watching you ignore and dismiss critical info because you dont want to alter your stance.

Everyone has biases and blind spots but today too many people dont want to recognize their own. On an intellectual level we are handicapped as fuck. Normally you are able to be very balanced but certain things you really go off a bias deep end and become very hard to talk to.

But I feel you have made some factually incorrect statements about abortion. Namely that men usually control the pro choice debate and pressure women to have abortions.

I think a number of women in this forum have disagreed with you on this point.

And that's not factually incorrect at all. I'm literally one of those women. 3 or 4 leftwing proabortion women do not cancel out thousands of women who lived that.

And I've shown you 5 forums full of women talking about how they were pressured by the male and/or their families to get abortions.

It's a huge misogynist problem where any negative impact of abortion is completely ignored and screeched over. Oak just posted about how women grieve adoption as a way of saying "these women should have aborted and if they suffered after abortion that's okay".

You got your narratives and you wont accept any thing outside of it.

Also I showed you it was men who started NARAL and recruited feminists to market abortion. I also showed you who started and heads the pro life movement. So how is that factually wrong when i literally posted facts?

That's the thing, you wont hear or look at anything that supports what I'm saying.

Basic logic and understanding the culture we are in alone should tell you that men are absolutely not trying to "control" women and make them have children. That's unhinged and false. Modern men do NOT want to be tied down with a pregnant woman in todays hook up culture.

You agree with legal abortion and you are trying to make arguments about women in general that do NOT fit women in general. You are pretty much canceling out all women who do not fit into your view of abortion. Which is something abortion activists do the most. That's activist thinking.

I personally don't agree to abortion after the 1st trimester unless it is on medical grounds.

I don't emotionalize pregnancy. I know too many women whose babies died in the 3rd trimester and they had to go through a real delivery... and a few full term stillborns too...

I think women who carry on about losing early pregnancy are embarrassing themselves. I like that women wait a healthy length of time before declaring they are pregnant and they that in case something does go wrong.

It is a very joyful time expecting a healthy WANTED child but not everyone fits in that box.

You'll see...sadly.

I thought about this a lot and I tried and tried to come up with the best prevention plan and if they really want the reduction of the abortion problem then men have to take 100% of the blame and pay for it accordingly. If they are held account by not wearing protection then THEY should be fined or something... they need a deterrent.

If every baby aborted was instead adopted out there would still be people waiting to adopt. They are all wanted.

And people are already going on sex strikes and talking about how to make sure they dont get pregnant. Men getting vasectomies. Women doubling up on birth control.

So it's already working, really.

 

[Omnipotent]

Really. I have to ask. Making abortion available to women who want it suddenly becomes male aggresion?

What the fuck is that about? It makes it a womans choice FFS

Yeah that's what I pointed out to Dove many times @Scoundrel . If men deny women an abortion we become the villain, but if we allow it, turn the other way and allow women to make their own decisions. ..we're still the villain..

Caint win I tell ya.

You can win... don't mate unless 1. you love the woman and want to share your life with her and your children born...or...

2. Wear protection.

It's not rocket Science!!!