So I'm thinking about fleeing my Communist State of Victoria...
- Thread starter Frood
- Start date
Good post, Raven.So, you're discussing two subjects here. The limitations (or lack thereof) of government authority and, secondly, the reported safety and efficacy of COVID vaccines.
On the latter issue, not being an expert myself (my degree is in philosophy and religious studies, not in virology and immunology), I defer to the medical establishment in its consensus surrounding public health best practices.
As for government authority, that's a much more complex issue. I know you hail from a country that has had such a traumatic relation with an overbearing government that civil rebellion against such tyranny is a foundational principle of your charter. I get it. I really do.
Our own historical experience, as Canadians, took a slightly different track. While we've enshrined our own rights and freedoms as citizens, we never went to war with Britain and remain part of that government's traditional orbit (even if the British Commonwealth is today a largely symbolic entity, as can be seen in the fact that QE2's role in Canadian affairs is titular at best).
Government (of any partisan stripe) oversteps its bounds when the people who CHOSE that government are harmed in a way that suggests it views the needs of the few as outweighing the needs of the many. The U.S. is in an interesting position: individual states have much more authority down there than provinces do up here. As such, your governing bodies are much more tailored to regional specs. That can be a good thing. And it can be a bad one. Good when state legislatures are flexible and responsive in their engagement with the material needs and cultural profiles of their local populations. Bad when a global strategy is required to protect or defend all Americans.
So, if you look at this pandemic as a war of sorts, your question, Raven, becomes: is the federal government overstepping its bounds when it requires that all citizens submit to a medical draft in an effort to conquer the enemy once and for all?
Personally, I say, "Sign me the fuck up! Nao!"
- Messages
- 45,955
- Location
- United states
Medical science has established that the Covid vaccine absolutely does not stop or slow the spread of Covid. This is a fact.
The only benefit of the vaccine is to the one who is being vaccinated, in that they will not get AS sick as they would have gotten without it.
They can and will STILL spread it.
So a mandate makes VERY LITTLE sense. This is why so many people in the medical feild are opposing and refusing.
The only benefit of the vaccine is to the one who is being vaccinated, in that they will not get AS sick as they would have gotten without it.
They can and will STILL spread it.
So a mandate makes VERY LITTLE sense. This is why so many people in the medical feild are opposing and refusing.
- Messages
- 6,595
.
I feel you've exaggerated the severity of this virus to make your point!! LOL It is NOT A WAR!!!! I work every day with unvaccinated people..I am vaccinated. WE ALL take precautions and live life. No one is treated differently or shamed for making a personal choice :/ I feel extremely lucky living in my state of Michigan, where people are able to decide what is best for them without government interference. The fact that you think it's okay that this man and his family will suffer over not getting a vaccination is absolutely outrageous to me ..cold-hearted!! :(.. I ask you to put yourself in his shoes, under a different scenario.. on an issue that is close to your heart.. and be FORCED to choose against your will... It isn't right!
So, you're discussing two subjects here. The limitations (or lack thereof) of government authority and, secondly, the reported safety and efficacy of COVID vaccines.
On the latter issue, not being an expert myself (my degree is in philosophy and religious studies, not in virology and immunology), I defer to the medical establishment in its consensus surrounding public health best practices.
As for government authority, that's a much more complex issue. I know you hail from a country that has had such a traumatic relation with an overbearing government that civil rebellion against such tyranny is a foundational principle of your charter. I get it. I really do.
Our own historical experience, as Canadians, took a slightly different track. While we've enshrined our own rights and freedoms as citizens, we never went to war with Britain and remain part of that government's traditional orbit (even if the British Commonwealth is today a largely symbolic entity, as can be seen in the fact that QE2's role in Canadian affairs is titular at best).
Government (of any partisan stripe) oversteps its bounds when the people who CHOSE that government are harmed in a way that suggests it views the needs of the few as outweighing the needs of the many. The U.S. is in an interesting position: individual states have much more authority down there than provinces do up here. As such, your governing bodies are much more tailored to regional specs. That can be a good thing. And it can be a bad one. Good when state legislatures are flexible and responsive in their engagement with the material needs and cultural profiles of their local populations. Bad when a global strategy is required to protect or defend all Americans.
So, if you look at this pandemic as a war of sorts, your question, Raven, becomes: is the federal government overstepping its bounds when it requires that all citizens submit to a medical draft in an effort to conquer the enemy once and for all?
Personally, I say, "Sign me the fuck up! Nao!"
0
But if you had the jab, you're protected....no?
Oh....right... moving goalposts followed by literal morons.
Just fucking die already.
- Messages
- 20,654
- Location
- Springfield
You can still get covid and die tho. Awesome vax, right?
I'm back, Raven.
Went to grab a bite with friends at a local pub. It's a gorgeous day out here. A good one to hang out. When the waiter asked to see our vaccine passports, I pulled out my tablet, loaded the screen, and let him grab the QR code. We were seated within a minute, eating within twenty. Fun was had by all.
Now, where were we?
Ah, yes. Freud and the nature of his personal choices. And the severity of the pandemic, yes.
Raven, you may not think the SARS-Cov2 virus is as serious as I (or public health authorities, for that matter) make it out to be, but keep in mind that, as of today, there are close to 46 million active COVID-19 cases in the U.S. and 744,000 (that's nearly three quarters of a million) of your fellow citizens have lost their lives because of this disease. And community transmission is high. Sounds damned serious to me.
Unlike Dove's post above (where she talks about "facts" without providing any authoritative sources for those "facts"), this post will provide you with such a source:
As to Freud's decision to possibly split up his family over his political beliefs, I feel for him. I really do. And I wish to high heaven things were not so. I do have compassion and empathy for him, as I do for anyone who falls victim to the rampant and destructive--even deadly--disinformation circulating on social media platforms (both established and fringe).
Freud's relentless, near-daily wishing of death and torture upon me for months now doesn't change the fact I can and do commiserate with him, as I can and do with anyone facing such a capital dilemma.
Now I know this will sound cold-hearted to you, Raven, but, speaking as someone whose gender identity is at variance with the norm and who yet stands fast in that identity (precisely because it is my own) against the onslaught of hatred and sundry vituperations such identities elicit, I must say this: "You make your bed, you sleep in it!" I chose to marginalize myself by "coming out"? I took (and continue to take) my lumps. And I do so with a light heart and a broad grin. It was my choice to put myself in that situation. I accept the consequences.
Same goes for Freud. The man is an adult. He can choose to get vaccinated. Or not. He can choose to split up his family. Or not. His decisions will have consequences either way. And I suspect he won't try to evade those consequences. He seems like a responsible sort.
I wish him well.
Went to grab a bite with friends at a local pub. It's a gorgeous day out here. A good one to hang out. When the waiter asked to see our vaccine passports, I pulled out my tablet, loaded the screen, and let him grab the QR code. We were seated within a minute, eating within twenty. Fun was had by all.
Now, where were we?
Ah, yes. Freud and the nature of his personal choices. And the severity of the pandemic, yes.
Raven, you may not think the SARS-Cov2 virus is as serious as I (or public health authorities, for that matter) make it out to be, but keep in mind that, as of today, there are close to 46 million active COVID-19 cases in the U.S. and 744,000 (that's nearly three quarters of a million) of your fellow citizens have lost their lives because of this disease. And community transmission is high. Sounds damned serious to me.
Unlike Dove's post above (where she talks about "facts" without providing any authoritative sources for those "facts"), this post will provide you with such a source:
As to Freud's decision to possibly split up his family over his political beliefs, I feel for him. I really do. And I wish to high heaven things were not so. I do have compassion and empathy for him, as I do for anyone who falls victim to the rampant and destructive--even deadly--disinformation circulating on social media platforms (both established and fringe).
Freud's relentless, near-daily wishing of death and torture upon me for months now doesn't change the fact I can and do commiserate with him, as I can and do with anyone facing such a capital dilemma.
Now I know this will sound cold-hearted to you, Raven, but, speaking as someone whose gender identity is at variance with the norm and who yet stands fast in that identity (precisely because it is my own) against the onslaught of hatred and sundry vituperations such identities elicit, I must say this: "You make your bed, you sleep in it!" I chose to marginalize myself by "coming out"? I took (and continue to take) my lumps. And I do so with a light heart and a broad grin. It was my choice to put myself in that situation. I accept the consequences.
Same goes for Freud. The man is an adult. He can choose to get vaccinated. Or not. He can choose to split up his family. Or not. His decisions will have consequences either way. And I suspect he won't try to evade those consequences. He seems like a responsible sort.
I wish him well.
- Messages
- 6,595
Nah... Your comparison/consequences to his situation and your "coming out" is bullshit! You're not losing your livelihood over it.. BIG difference. Anywho.. Not going to change your mind.. Hopefully, you will never have to encounter this kind of government tyranny.. We'll have to disagree on this. Take Care.
- Messages
- 45,498
AMEN!
- Messages
- 45,498
Look at this sickening freak in his pomposity trying without any sense of shame whatsoever to jump up on the cross of woe is me I been smitten unjustly. Comparing his choice to nourish mental illness and sick perversions to that of a person wishing only to exercise his right to bodily autonomy and paying his entire financial future & way of life as a consequence.
When in fact, in this day and age of sickening degeneracy announcing ones commitment to sexual perversions of the highest order entitles one to praise & applause. Whereas Freud will enjoy neither as he sleeps in his car for his silent heroism in the face of abominable tyranny. And yet here you are likening your own choice to be a fucking dutiful puppet when the bell rings to the brave men and women who took up arms against an enemy their weapons could actually crush.
Tell me again asshole, which enemy are you crushing with a jab that does absolutely dick to stop the spread of COVID?
No, you're not crushing enemies, you're crushing any remaining vestiges of self respect you may have once enjoyed as you bow to the peer pressure that is the modern left
and that's exactly why I find people like you so utterly fucking repulsive. Stand up and be counted you fucking cretin.
*spits*
When in fact, in this day and age of sickening degeneracy announcing ones commitment to sexual perversions of the highest order entitles one to praise & applause. Whereas Freud will enjoy neither as he sleeps in his car for his silent heroism in the face of abominable tyranny. And yet here you are likening your own choice to be a fucking dutiful puppet when the bell rings to the brave men and women who took up arms against an enemy their weapons could actually crush.
Tell me again asshole, which enemy are you crushing with a jab that does absolutely dick to stop the spread of COVID?
No, you're not crushing enemies, you're crushing any remaining vestiges of self respect you may have once enjoyed as you bow to the peer pressure that is the modern left
and that's exactly why I find people like you so utterly fucking repulsive. Stand up and be counted you fucking cretin.
*spits*
I don't want your well wishes, you misinformed authoritarian cult pom pom girl....
You people have facilitated the outcome of what liberty minded people have to endure now. So if I hope you have a blood clot dislodge and foul up your heart, that's payback, motherfucker.
- Messages
- 45,955
- Location
- United states
I apologize. I assume people who think it's okay for this vaccine to be coerced and forced are taking the time to make sure they have the proper info, especially when they openly say that unlike the rest of us they use facts.
I thought facts fueled leftism even so I figured this was already known.
When you guys were vaccinated did the nurse/doctor/pharmacist not give you an info sheet? Did they explain your risks of transmission and tell you to still wear a mask inside if you feel sick? Our pharmacist explained this to us.
"If you are fully vaccinated and become infected with the Delta variant, you can spread the virus to others."
"
THE NEW DATA SAYS THAT A FULLY VACCINATED PERSON WHO EXPERIENCES A BREAKTHROUGH INFECTION CAN SPREAD THE VIRUS JUST AS MUCH AS AN UNVACCINATED PERSON. IS THIS ONLY FOR SYMPTOMATIC INFECTIONS?
It’s expected that symptomatic breakthroughs are more contagious than asymptomatic breakthroughs."
Asymptomatic cases in general are not as contagious as symptomatic ones.
I can also post studies if its required.
These vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity(that means completely preventing infection and transmission). What they do is pretty much eliminate your odds of being hospitalized or dying. They dont stop you from catching and spreading.
This needs to be a decision individuals make with thier doctors.....not a forced requirement to work.
I thought facts fueled leftism even so I figured this was already known.
When you guys were vaccinated did the nurse/doctor/pharmacist not give you an info sheet? Did they explain your risks of transmission and tell you to still wear a mask inside if you feel sick? Our pharmacist explained this to us.
"If you are fully vaccinated and become infected with the Delta variant, you can spread the virus to others."
"
THE NEW DATA SAYS THAT A FULLY VACCINATED PERSON WHO EXPERIENCES A BREAKTHROUGH INFECTION CAN SPREAD THE VIRUS JUST AS MUCH AS AN UNVACCINATED PERSON. IS THIS ONLY FOR SYMPTOMATIC INFECTIONS?
It’s expected that symptomatic breakthroughs are more contagious than asymptomatic breakthroughs."
Asymptomatic cases in general are not as contagious as symptomatic ones.
I can also post studies if its required.
These vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity(that means completely preventing infection and transmission). What they do is pretty much eliminate your odds of being hospitalized or dying. They dont stop you from catching and spreading.
This needs to be a decision individuals make with thier doctors.....not a forced requirement to work.
Last edited:
I like how dude is leaving his home and his job and shit because he's too scared of a vaccine that will help him not get the plague or not get it as bad. And then all the other anti-science morons pat him on the back and help reinforce his insanity... hilarious. Most hilarious thread in a long time.
Ok, Mr. Mangina....
There certainly is a big difference. Unemployment is the least of the risks faced by members of the trans community, Raven. Hate-motivated murder being the greatest. This year alone, nearly fifty people were killed just in the U.S. for being trans. And this, mind you, is people being killed for who they are, not because of what they do. And these numbers, according to the HRC, are likely under-reported. But hey! Keep your compassion in check. Freud might need it
Nor I yours. Live and let live, remember?
Hopefully, yes. But I'm a firm believer in the principles of democracy (which, for some weird reason, Dove, for instance, claims do not apply to your country). If incipient tyranny ever manifests itself, we'll boot it out with a pencil at the ballot box, not with violence on the steps of our Parliament.
We will. Goodbye.
- Messages
- 11,058
....in which case you better not go to to the US at this time. Or Brazil either.
Travel to those destinations might not be terribly safe for you Blurt. Especially in this politically charged environment eh. Best for you to stay at home.
You & your friend mimi are lucky to live in a place which shares your like minded views & lifestyles. I might be OK if I ventured it's those places but you not so much Blurt.
Stay in Canada & stay safe Blurt.
- Messages
- 45,955
- Location
- United states
It's seriously Idiocracy.
You know shits BAD when being opposed to government coercion and force of a medical intervention is being called "anti science".
It's just so Orwell. And any dialog no matter how scientifically accurate is just "anti science" if the person saying it is interrupting the fascist narrative.
Guys, science means you have to do whatever the gov mandates. Duh. If it's not government approved its anti science.
You know shits BAD when being opposed to government coercion and force of a medical intervention is being called "anti science".
It's just so Orwell. And any dialog no matter how scientifically accurate is just "anti science" if the person saying it is interrupting the fascist narrative.
Guys, science means you have to do whatever the gov mandates. Duh. If it's not government approved its anti science.
- Messages
- 45,955
- Location
- United states
- Messages
- 11,058
I just say these things ta bug Blurt.
However I get the sense it is less safe in the US for Trans people than Canada.
I got attacked 3 or 4 times in the States when I was living there. So I somewhat believe all those violent incidents you've experienced.
US is a tougher more violent society than Canada. But we're not free of it either.
- Messages
- 17,694
You are claiming other people are insane? You?!
- Messages
- 17,694
Factually, untrue. The greatest threat to "trans" people is suicide. No, "transitioning" doesn't effect their suicide rates at all and, no, it is not everyone else who is the cause. Internal mental illness is the primary cause. Last I heard 47% commit suicide so it is by far a bigger problem than someone else attacking them.
- Messages
- 31,895
Looks to me he made his bed and now will have to sleep in it. The way of the World.
'Cept it doesn't bug me, Jomo.
Unlike you, I actually like Americans. I'm most certainly not afraid of them.
And you're the one who's often expressed a fear of "leaving the house," and an absolute mortal terror at even the thought of visiting the U.S., not me.
For some reason, you seem incapable of distinguishing between the fantasyland of an anonymous online environment and flesh and blood reality. Regardless of the banter here, I'm quite confident that I would enjoy hanging out for a coffee or a beer or a glass of wine with any member on this board.
Except maybe for UncleFiLTH. That guy's a lost cause.
- Messages
- 11,058
Actually Blurt I believe that Trans people get murdered or attacked in the US a lot. There's probably many more incidents that don't get reported either. I was attacked or threatened 4 times when I lived there. And that was in good times too & I'm not Trans. Plus there's a Lotta religious fundamentalist kooks.
It's just a different country Blurt. Much more socially conservative. Even liberal California. It's not hard to the US is so polarized these days.
Anyways I've nothing against Americans. It's just a different country and society eh.
- Messages
- 45,498
You got attacked 4 times? you must look like a real mark.
I lived in NY all my life and hung out in some of the roughest neighborhoods and never been attacked after reaching my 20's.
And the only reason I got attacked prior to that was because I was a troubled teen troublemaker who loved fighting every chance I got. I went looking for trouble on several occasions and found it. It was fun tho. I wouldn't change a thing.
- Messages
- 11,058
Yet I can see why people carry guns in the US.
I didn't own a gun when I was there.
But it seems like a more violent place now.
There are some ghettos the average person wouldnt or shouldn't visit.
- Messages
- 45,498
- Messages
- 11,058
And yet you're the one who brings up & highlights that 50 Trans people were murdered in the United States this year Blurt.
Not me. So you brought it up for a reason to emphasize a point.
So don't try to whitewash the issue which you yourself brought up Blurt.
