RUH OH VAXXIES

[Adam Hitler]

Because it is inaccurate, does truth not enter your calculations?

It's been reported by numerous different sources you lying fuckwit.

 

[Garraty_47]

@Lily

So much to unpack... I doubt I'll get to it all but here goes:

The government, the infotainment media (where most people get their "news"), and almost every other public-facing entity in 'Murica lies to us. Constantly. By default. And often simply to protect corporate interests at the expense of individuals.

Add to that:

The mRNA vaccines are a new technology.
Lumping them in with previous vaccines and pretending that questioning a relatively untested technology is the same as questioning all vaccines that ever existed is simplistic and misleading to the point of actual deceit.

The facts are:

Pharmaceutical companies are not benevolent.
'Murica is so corrupt it won't even hold personally accountable the executives responsible for the opioid epidemic (although of course there's a settlement for pennies -at best- on the dollars earned with no requirement for anyone to admit guilt of anything) or prevent the inhumane price gouging on things like insulin that people literally need to live. 'Murica is the only (or one of only a very few?) nation that allows direct marketing of drugs to its citizens. This isn't for "the public good". Many of the drugs and snake oil being advertised today will, in six months time, have their own class action lawsuits because they cause cancer or whatever.

In that climate, and especially considering the amount of ill-gotten money flowing into political campaign coffers (not to mention other legalized bribery such as speaking fees, PACs, revolving door "lobbying" gigs, insider trading, etc.), a prudent individual would naturally presume anything supported by or beneficial to the pharmaceutical industry to be yet another upward transfer of wealth that will have either a negligible or deleterious effect on individuals themselves. Not because of paranoia; because that's what historically always happens.

We can't even guarantee heath care to every citizen; a feat somehow achieved by every other industrialized nation on Earth. That's not for "the public good". That's to protect the profits of an unnecessary and burdensome middle-man known as the insurance industry as well as the pharmaceutical industry profits since gaming insurance claims is how they make most of their money anyway.

There is no reason to trust those industries or their apologists in government or elsewhere.
Ever.
They lie and obfuscate constantly not for any benefit to people but for increasing shareholder value.

Trust the science?
Which science?
The co-inventor of the mRNA technology, Dr. Robert Malone, tried to tell people the vaccine was never intended to prevent contracting or spreading the virus (among other cautions he issued) and was shunned so thoroughly entire posts and videos on social media platforms were "disappeared", their authors demonetized or even suspended, merely for repeating Dr. Malone's "blasphemous" statements.

And we're supposed to trust the people censoring and smearing and attacking authoritative sources of information because their information doesn't align with the establishment narrative?

That's insane.

Of course the gubmint is out to get us.
Always has been as far back as I can recall.
Pretending the gubmint is a benevolent and impartial defender of freedumbs and librultees is the position that's not jiving with all that's known about the people and institutions calling the shots in Washington D.C.

Which is crazier:
A healthy distrust of someone who has proven time and again to not be trustworthy, or blindly putting your life in that shady mutherfucker's hands then berating anyone who doesn't follow your example?

I know what my answer is.

 

[Garraty_47]

Because it is inaccurate, does truth not enter your calculations?

The truth, in this particular case, is irrelevant to me.

As I said: whether whats-his-face died of mRNA vaccine complications or un-diagnosed syphilis or what the fuck ever doesn't change anything for me. It's just a factoid that won't alter my opinion about anything at all.

I see this specific case holds a great deal of importance to you for whatever reason but I just don't give any fucks. I didn't know the guy, I haven't a clue what killed him, and I see no valid reason to be interested in this shit.

However I wish you luck in Scooby-Doo'ing this thing and getting some peace of mind for yourself.

I really do.

 

[Lily]

@Lily

So much to unpack... I doubt I'll get to it all but here goes:

The government, the infotainment media (where most people get their "news"), and almost every other public-facing entity in 'Murica lies to us. Constantly. By default. And often simply to protect corporate interests at the expense of individuals.

Add to that:

The mRNA vaccines are a new technology.
Lumping them in with previous vaccines and pretending that questioning a relatively untested technology is the same as questioning all vaccines that ever existed is simplistic and misleading to the point of actual deceit.

The facts are:

Pharmaceutical companies are not benevolent.
'Murica is so corrupt it won't even hold personally accountable the executives responsible for the opioid epidemic (although of course there's a settlement for pennies -at best- on the dollars earned with no requirement for anyone to admit guilt of anything) or prevent the inhumane price gouging on things like insulin that people literally need to live. 'Murica is the only (or one of only a very few?) nation that allows direct marketing of drugs to its citizens. This isn't for "the public good". Many of the drugs and snake oil being advertised today will, in six months time, have their own class action lawsuits because they cause cancer or whatever.

In that climate, and especially considering the amount of ill-gotten money flowing into political campaign coffers (not to mention other legalized bribery such as speaking fees, PACs, revolving door "lobbying" gigs, insider trading, etc.), a prudent individual would naturally presume anything supported by or beneficial to the pharmaceutical industry to be yet another upward transfer of wealth that will have either a negligible or deleterious effect on individuals themselves. Not because of paranoia; because that's what historically always happens.

We can't even guarantee heath care to every citizen; a feat somehow achieved by every other industrialized nation on Earth. That's not for "the public good". That's to protect the profits of an unnecessary and burdensome middle-man known as the insurance industry as well as the pharmaceutical industry profits since gaming insurance claims is how they make most of their money anyway.

There is no reason to trust those industries or their apologists in government or elsewhere.
Ever.
They lie and obfuscate constantly not for any benefit to people but for increasing shareholder value.

Trust the science?
Which science?
The co-inventor of the mRNA technology, Dr. Robert Malone, tried to tell people the vaccine was never intended to prevent contracting or spreading the virus (among other cautions he issued) and was shunned so thoroughly entire posts and videos on social media platforms were "disappeared", their authors demonetized or even suspended, merely for repeating Dr. Malone's "blasphemous" statements.

And we're supposed to trust the people censoring and smearing and attacking authoritative sources of information because their information doesn't align with the establishment narrative?

That's insane.

Of course the gubmint is out to get us.
Always has been as far back as I can recall.
Pretending the gubmint is a benevolent and impartial defender of freedumbs and librultees is the position that's not jiving with all that's known about the people and institutions calling the shots in Washington D.C.

Which is crazier:
A healthy distrust of someone who has proven time and again to not be trustworthy, or blindly putting your life in that shady mutherfucker's hands then berating anyone who doesn't follow your example?

I know what my answer is.

I believe you're convoluting a lot of different problems into 1 problem. I sincerely think that weakens your arguments.

You have ignored now, several times, that I am not a consumer of infotainment. At this point I have to believe that it's not only a belief you hold, but it's one you're going to apply to anyone that disagrees with you.

And you have twisted all my points. You're telling me that MRna is a new technology? No shit, Sherlock.

Our healthcare system exists to be profitable in this country? No shit, Sherlock.

Pharmaceuticals are there to profit and don't give a fuck about people? No shit, Sherlock. They only care enough to not actively kill their clientele.

I don't care that Dr. Malone said what he said. If you look at recent data, people that refused to be vaccinated died in larger numbers than those who got the vaccine. Those are facts that only "true believers" will dispute.

There is nothing wrong with having a "healthy distrust" whatsoever.

The problem is when people have an "unhealthy distrust", which I have seen in this country, and others as well. It caused many preventable deaths and you won't convince me otherwise.

 

[Admin.]

It's been reported by numerous different sources you lying fuckwit.

No it hasn't, stop lying closet case, a repost is NOT an additional source you pinhead.

 

[Garraty_47]

I believe you're convoluting a lot of different problems into 1 problem. I sincerely think that weakens your arguments.

You can't say that without providing an example.
As things stand I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

You have ignored now, several times, that I am not a consumer of infotainment. At this point I have to believe that it's not only a belief you hold, but it's one you're going to apply to anyone that disagrees with you.

I specifically said in my last poast that most people still get their "news" from corporate media. I didn't say everyone and I certainly didn't say I believed you did.

This isn't just about you and me...
...this is a discussion of systemic issues that affect every 'Murican citizen as well as humanity itself.

Stop looking for non-existent nits to pick.

And you have twisted all my points. You're telling me that MRna is a new technology? No shit, Sherlock.

Our healthcare system exists to be profitable in this country? No shit, Sherlock.

Pharmaceuticals are there to profit and don't give a fuck about people? No shit, Sherlock. They only care enough to not actively kill their clientele.

You can say all that and then *still* berate someone for questioning the narrative?

Did you bonk your head recently?

I don't care that Dr. Malone said what he said. If you look at recent data, people that refused to be vaccinated died in larger numbers than those who got the vaccine. Those are facts that only "true believers" will dispute.

Whose data?
Collected where?
By whom?
What were the criteria used to extract those numbers?

You're not telling me anything except you've wholly bought into some "information" that as far as I knew you simply pulled out of your nether region. And the reason you should "care" about Dr. Malone is the incontrovertible fact that he helped invent the mRNA technology in the first place and therefore ought to be trusted to know a thing or two about it.

Innit.

There is nothing wrong with having a "healthy distrust" whatsoever.

The problem is when people have an "unhealthy distrust", which I have seen in this country, and others as well. It caused many preventable deaths and you won't convince me otherwise.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm stating my own thoughts and conclusions as clearly as I can; you can take them or leave them as pleases you. But we're definitely talking about a healthy distrust here, not the other kind. That's not up for debate as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Admin.]

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[Admin.]

You can't say that without providing an example.
As things stand I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.



I specifically said in my last poast that most people still get their "news" from corporate media. I didn't say everyone and I certainly didn't say I believed you did.

This isn't just about you and me...
...this is a discussion of systemic issues that affect every 'Murican citizen as well as humanity itself.

Stop looking for non-existent nits to pick.



You can say all that and then *still* berate someone for questioning the narrative?

Did you bonk your head recently?




Whose data?
Collected where?
By whom?
What were the criteria used to extract those numbers?

You're not telling me anything except you've wholly bought into some "information" that as far as I knew you simply pulled out of your nether region. And the reason you should "care" about Dr. Malone is the incontrovertible fact that he helped invent the mRNA technology in the first place and therefore ought to be trusted to know a thing or two about it.

Innit.



I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm stating my own thoughts and conclusions as clearly as I can; you can take them or leave them as pleases you. But we're definitely talking about a healthy distrust here, not the other kind. That's not up for debate as far as I'm concerned.

The fact that your stating your case in a thread based on a hoax, I find illuminating.

 

[Adam Hitler]

No it hasn't, stop lying closet case, a repost is NOT an additional source you pinhead.

What are you denying exactly? That the guy is dead or that the vaxx killed him?

If it's the latter, no one has said that. What has been pointed out however is that he was fully vaxxed and his past comments concerning covid have been reposted.

The cause of death has not yet been announced.

 

[Lily]

Okay, when I am having a discussion with you on an obscure forum, I don't see it as a discussion for an audience in any meaningful way. Largely it's a troll forum where no one really cares to take anything seriously, especially not serious discussion. It seemed to me that you decided I consume infotainment media and weren't giving me the benefit of the doubt. I see infotainment media largely trolling who exist to serve the elite.

I don't berate people questioning any narrative, but what I do find is that when we don't know how some things work, it doesn't mean that those people, in this case working to improve our health, are malignant actors.

Data from this recent peer-reviewed publication:

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Anyone that says to me "the government is out to get us" sounds like they have an unhealthy distrust of government.
As my partner often says, there's also Hanlon's Razor "Never ascribe to malice that which is easily explained by stupidity". Just like everywhere else, there are a lot of stupid/incompetent people in healthcare, private or government.

Also, why is the government out to get us? What purpose does it serve?

I believe that the government, like all governments that have existed for all of human history, want a compliant, servile and pliable citizenry. They don't want to "get us". They want us NOT to get them. Simple human nature, who wants trouble? No one.

 

[Adam Hitler]

The fact that your stating your case in a thread based on a hoax, I find illuminating.

How the fuck do you know it's a "hoax" you complete cretin?

That so called "fact check" link you posted, evidently written by a pro-vaxx shill, doesn't deny that the guy is dead, it just points out how the cause of death hasn't yet been verified, but it's been written in such a way to dupe idiots like you into thinking that the whole thing has been made up.

 

[Lily]

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Well, wouldn't vaccine sudden death have to be like...kinda sudden, dude?

Jesus H Christ on a hockey stick...

 

[Admin.]

What are you denying exactly? That the guy is dead or that the vaxx killed him?

If it's the latter, no one has said that. What has been pointed out however is that he was fully vaxxed and his past comments concerning covid have been reposted.

The cause of death has not yet been announced.

So when you posted this completely and totally unrelated to Vaccines story, what was your plan, your hoped for outcome?

 

[Admin.]

So when you posted this completely and totally unrelated to Vaccines story, what was your plan, your hoped for outcome?

Can we expect future car crash deaths and gun deaths etc of people who were vaxxed to be reported by you, here in this thread?

 

[Adam Hitler]

How is it "totally unrelated" when there's a possibility that he may have died from complications brought on from being vaccinated?

Are you trying to say that there have been absolutely no deaths or health problems triggered from the vaccination?

 

[Blazor]

Actually it's modern day Clown World which drove me to become a White Nationalist.

You on the otherhand believe that men can be women and vice versa, and that there are currently 63 different genders and counting....

Same reason I fly my flag!!!!

 

[Adam Hitler]

Can we expect future car crash deaths and gun deaths etc of people who were vaxxed to be reported by you, here in this thread?

Speaking of which, remember how the Covid death toll was inflated and exaggerated by the authorities in order to create panic and hysteria by listing car crash victims etc, as Covid fatalities despite the virus not being the cause of death?

Funny how you pro-vaxx leftards never mention that.

 

[Lily]

Actually it's modern day Clown World which drove me to become a White Nationalist.

You on the otherhand believe that men can be women and vice versa, and that there are currently 63 different genders and counting....

No, I don't actually believe that men can be women and vice-versa. I believe that people have the right to identify whatever way they want. I know that there are people that have ambiguous reproductive organs.

I am no one to tell anyone what they need to say about themselves. I respect people as people as long as they aren't deliberately out to harm anyone.

 

[Garraty_47]

The fact that your stating your case in a thread based on a hoax, I find illuminating.

The fact that you constantly find one little thing to mention endlessly, I find boring.

 

[Garraty_47]

I don't berate people questioning any narrative, but what I do find is that when we don't know how some things work, it doesn't mean that those people, in this case working to improve our health, are malignant actors.

The "problem" in the case of covid and the mRNA vaccines is that the people who do bother to find out how they work are the ones being vilified and castigated for not accepting whatever the establishment narrative is on a given day of the week. People like Fauci and other public-facing officials are proven bad actors.

Remember when those two senior FDA officials resigned rather than be party to Biden's booster schemes?

Did they just "not know how things work"? I propose that they were the *only* officials involved in those white house policy rollouts who obviously *weren't* malignant actors.

Data from this recent peer-reviewed publication:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH?!?

You had to trawl the internet for SCIENCE papers by ECONOMICS think tank shitheads to make a point?

Didn't Ben Bernanke used to be a "research associate" at NBER?
The same Ben Bernanke who was the Fed chair during the 2008 financial meltdown?

lulz

Pardon me if I don't even bother to wipe my arse with that corporatist propaganda; I don't want to catch any of Bernanke's cooties.

Anyone that says to me "the government is out to get us" sounds like they have an unhealthy distrust of government.

That's because you, along with every other 'Murican citizen, have been part of the most heavily propagandized population on Earth for decades if not generations. Your mind is not your own. You have accepted the narrow parameters of thought and questioning promoted by the establishment and have been conditioned to respond to anything outside those parameters by saying "that's crazy".

It's not (entirely) your fault and you're certainly not alone.
But it's an actual thing.

As my partner often says, there's also Hanlon's Razor "Never ascribe to malice that which is easily explained by stupidity".

One corollary of which is: The malicious will hire stupid fools to do their bidding.

Also there is a level of incompetence which one could not achieve without purposeful neglect and lack of curiosity that is functionally indistinguishable from malice. At what point does willful ignorance become malice... when it destroys 10 lives? A hundred? A thousand? A million? Where's the line?

Also, why is the government out to get us? What purpose does it serve?

The oldest "why"s in the books:

Power.
Money.
Dominion.

Not to mention we've created (or allowed to be created which in my mind is the same thing) a system of governance that not only encourages and rewards sociopathy it practically demands it. It's a fucking prerequisite.

I believe that the government, like all governments that have existed for all of human history, want a compliant, servile and pliable citizenry. They don't want to "get us". They want us NOT to get them. Simple human nature, who wants trouble? No one.

You can obviously catch glimpses of the path but you're not on it yet.
Keep going... you'll find it sooner or later.

 

[Flynn]

What I find strange and disturbing is a distinct lack of quoting/linking objective sources in regard to a rise or fall in prevalence of myocarditis and other health issues -especially among otherwise healthy adults and children- alleged to be associated with the new mRNA vaccines.

Surely a little empirical data would go a long way toward settling this.

Did someone say, "empirical?"

 

[Lily]

The "problem" in the case of covid and the mRNA vaccines is that the people who do bother to find out how they work are the ones being vilified and castigated for not accepting whatever the establishment narrative is on a given day of the week. People like Fauci and other public-facing officials are proven bad actors.

Remember when those two senior FDA officials resigned rather than be party to Biden's booster schemes?

Did they just "not know how things work"? I propose that they were the *only* officials involved in those white house policy rollouts that obviously *weren't* malignant actors.



NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH?!?

You had to trawl the internet for SCIENCE papers by ECONOMICS think tank shitheads to make a point?

Didn't Ben Bernanke used to be a "research associate" at NBER?
The same Ben Bernanke who was the Fed chair during the 2008 financial meltdown?

lulz

Pardon me if I don't even bother to wipe my arse with that corporatist propaganda; I don't want to catch any of Bernake's cooties.



That's because you, along along with every other 'Murican citizen, have been part of the most heavily propagandized population on Earth for decades if not generations. Your mind is not your own. You have accepted the narrow parameters of thought and questioning promoted by the establishment and have been conditioned to respond to anything outside those parameters by saying "that's crazy".

It's not (entirely) your fault and you're certainly not alone.
But it's an actual thing.



One corollary of which is: The malicious will hire stupid fools to do their bidding.

Also there is a level of incompetence which one could not achieve without purposeful neglect and lack of curiosity that is functionally indistinguishable from malice. At what point does willful ignorance become malice... when it destroys 10 lives? A hundred? A thousand? A million? Where's the line?



The oldest "why"s in the books:

Power.
Money.
Dominion.

Not to mention we've created (or allowed to be created which in my mind is the same thing) a system of governance that not only encourages and rewards sociopathy it practically demands it. It's a fucking prerequisite.



You can obviously catch glimpses of the path but you're not on it yet.
Keep going... you'll find it sooner or later.

I'm going to make just a couple of points.

Sometimes you need to look a little deeper. The researchers were published in NEBR's journal, yes. Yet, 2 of 3 do research and I assume teach at the Yale School of Public Health, while the 3rd teaches and does research at the Yale School of Management. You might be surprised, but people don't always work in narrow fields. One common example is that there are trained veterinarians that work in public health. If you think about it, you might figure out why. If not, look it up.

Jacob Wallace Yale School of Public Health Department of Health Policy and Management 60 College Street New Haven, CT 06520 jacob.wallace@yale.edu

Paul Goldsmith-Pinkham Yale School of Management 165 Whitney Avenue New Haven, CT 06511 and NBER paulgp@gmail.com

Jason L. Schwartz Yale School of Public Health 60 College Street New Haven, CT 06510 jason.l.schwartz@yale.edu

My mind is much my own. I have been presented with alternative political thought long before you made it to the Airforce. My parents were both union organizers for the UFW, when i was a 3-4 year old. The UFW was the beginning of more and more politicized activities from my parents. I've been taught things that I believe. Also, other things that I rejected as I grew up and saw the world on my own. The thing being raised in a very politicized environment is that you see corruption from people with all the "best" of political ideals. It is why I'm pretty cynical about politicians of all stripes. Where does ego, ambition, greed and corruption end in that group of people? It doesn't. But we live in the real world and have to choose the best from the some of the worst people out there.

I am going to assume you and I are using different language to say the same or similar things. I will continue to reject the idea of "out to get" and remain believing that they aren't out to get us, that's simply an unplanned outcome in their quest for power and money. Greed isn't about having malice for others, maybe it's worse. It's about indifference in the quest for self-aggrandizement. I am not blind to anything. What I am is realistic and powerless.

 

[Flynn]

A no you.

Face it, you little queer, the cats out the bag with your faggotry and don’t try to spin shit to try and make your faggotness seem chic.

And just because you love a dick in your mouth and are probably salivating at the thought of a big fresh cock, you mouth watering pillow gummer, don’t get it twisted. We have one rule here, to each his own. And just because you enjoy getting your ass punctured like a pin cushion from shlongs, we, as a society have to accept faggots like you.

Don’t deflect your faggot, faggot. Just be yourself, queen.

Poofer, you're silly.

LoL@"...don’t try to spin shit to try and make your faggotness seem chic."

 

[Garraty_47]

@Lily

• NEBR's journal = capitalist propaganda
• Yale = one of the elitist "ivy league" managerial class factories
• Being exposed to something isn't the same as understanding or absorbing it.

Objectivity is the key. Examine not only what you've been taught but what you've perceived about everything seen through the lens of what you've been taught. Unlearning cultural conditioning is both the most fundamental and most difficult step in freeing your mind. Don't merely seek five slightly different answers to a question that is itself biased and tainted; demand better questions.

Or don't. Going along to get along is by far the easier course to navigate.

 

[Lily]

@Lily

• NEBR's journal = capitalist propaganda
• Yale = one of the elitist "ivy league" managerial class factories
• Being exposed to something isn't the same as understanding or absorbing it.

Objectivity is the key. Examine not only what you've been taught but what you've perceived about everything seen through the lens of what you've been taught. Unlearning cultural conditioning is both the most fundamental and most difficult step in freeing your mind. Don't merely seek five slightly different answers to a question that is itself biased and tainted; demand better questions.

Or don't. Going along to get along is by far the easier course to navigate.

Public health academics is not exactly MBA and Business School type of people.

I'm done, you're going to attack things without ever reading anything.

 

[Garraty_47]

I'm done, you're going to attack things without ever reading anything.

/shrug

I read enough to recognize what I was looking at, obviously.

BTW I don't recall you or Admin referencing/refuting anything in the Grayzone article I posted, either.

Quid pro quo, Clarice.

 

[Lily]

/shrug

I read enough to recognize what I was looking at, obviously.

BTW I don't recall you or Admin referencing/refuting anything in the Grayzone article I posted, either.

Quid pro quo, Clarice.

Why bother? You're the wisest person at this forum, well barring Blandscape of course.


eta: I have to admit this is why "progressives" a la Bernie Sanders, AOC and the like have been a huge turn off for people like me.

 

[Garraty_47]

Why bother? You're the wisest person at this forum, well barring Blandscape of course.

I would never make that claim.
I might, however, accept the designation of Clearest Thinker.

That's still probably inaccurate but it has some appeal.

 

[Lily]

I would never make that claim.
I might, however, accept the designation of Clearest Thinker.

That's still probably inaccurate but it has some appeal.

Modesty is the most admirable of all virtues.

 

[Frood]

And a healthy BMI....