Well, well, well, these morons don't believe Oswald did it

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It has become a cliche that everyone of a certain age could tell you where they were when they heard
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
was dead. Clint Hill spent decades trying to forget.

The Secret Service agent was in the Dallas motorcade as a member of the first lady’s detail when Kennedy was
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
on 22 November 1963. Hill leaped on to the back of the presidential limousine to use his body to shield the Kennedys from any additional shots.

But as the 60th anniversary approaches, Hill fears that the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
will take the truth of the assassination to their graves. In an age of division, disinformation and internet-fuelled movements such as QAnon,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
about who killed Kennedy and why are thriving as never before.

“It concerns me a great deal,” says Hill, who addresses the issue in the afterword of a new edition of his book,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, “because there aren’t many of us left – very, very few – and eventually, the way things have been going, those conspiracy theories are going to win out and take over, and then you won’t have any factual information about what happened on November 22nd, 1963, in Dallas, Texas, and that’s a shame.

“It should be documented, it should be factual, not conspiratorial, and that’s why I wrote the book because I wanted to make sure everybody who wants to has an opportunity to get the facts about November 22nd, 1963, and not be just part of a conspiratorial theoretical group.”

The official account holds that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination but unproven conspiracy theories include claims of a second gunman and the involvement of organised crime or the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Hill was appalled by Oliver Stone’s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, which in 1991 helped popularise the “
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
”, and by Stone’s
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
two years ago.

He has lived to see Donald Trump suggest that the father of the Republican senator Ted Cruz was somehow involved and QAnon followers
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the belief that Kennedy or his son John F Kennedy Jr – who died in a plane crash in 1999 – would appear alive to announce Trump’s reinstatement as president with Kennedy Jr as vice-president. Robert Kennedy Jr has claimed that the CIA was involved in his uncle’s murder and is now running for president himself.

Hill dismisses it all with the weary indignation of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
insisting that yes, he really did land on the moon. “Conspiracies are nothing more than theories,” he says, wearing spectacles, red shirt and sleeveless cream vest, and speaking via Zoom from his home in Belvedere, California. “They’re not fact.”

With Hill on the running board of the car behind the Kennedys, the motorcade travelled a 10-mile route that wound through downtown Dallas and turned off Main Street at Dealey Plaza, beneath the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, where Oswald was perched on the sixth floor. As he recalls what happened next, his voice holding steady, it as if six decades have melted away and Hill is back there in the sunshine, the crowds, the explosion of violence.

“I was scanning the area to my left, which is a grassy area, and the overpass that we were going to have to go under and I saw nothing that would cause any concern. All of a sudden I heard this explosive noise over my right shoulder. I turned my head, started looking toward the right, but only got as far as the back of the presidential vehicle and I saw the president grabbing his throat and starting to fall to his left. I knew then that he apparently had been shot.”

Hill jumped from his position on the follow-up car and ran toward the presidential vehicle but, as he approached, he “felt” the third shot hit Kennedy in the head. “It entered lower on the back of the head and blew out a section of his skull just behind and above the right ear.

“With that came blood, bone fragments, brain material. Mrs Kennedy then started to get up on the trunk: she was trying to reach some of that material that had come out of the president’s head. I grabbed hold of her when I got up on top of the car and helped her get back into the back seat. When I did that, the president’s body fell further to its left and his head ended up in her lap.”

He continues in a steady voice: “I got up on the back of the top of the trunk and lay there forming a barrier so that nothing further could injure them. But I looked down and I saw the condition the president was in. There was a massive hole in the skull area: there was nothing there, no brain material.

“When Mrs Kennedy went up in the back, she actually did get some piece of that material and had it in her hands. I looked down and there was just no way I thought president could survive this and I turned and gave a thumbs down to my fellow agents in a follow-up car and screamed at the driver of the president’s car to get to a hospital.”
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Jeez - Kennedy himself didn't want them there.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Ironically, Hill now can’t believe Kennedy even made it to Nov. 22, 1963, because his love of open-topped motorcades with minimal security from a thinly stretched Secret Service made him “a sitting duck.”
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Episode 2 is out.



You really think Rob Reiner doesn't have enough money already, and that's why he's been obsessed with the JFK assassination for decades, @The New Holliday ?
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Jeez - Kennedy himself didn't want them there.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Ironically, Hill now can’t believe Kennedy even made it to Nov. 22, 1963, because his love of open-topped motorcades with minimal security from a thinly stretched Secret Service made him “a sitting duck.”
If he had planned days earlier to not have the guy on the bumper, why was he on the bumper that day, riding along, and Kennedy was doing his thing, and THEN the guy got called off in the middle? Come on. That's a convenient explanation.
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Episode 2 is out.



You really think Rob Reiner doesn't have enough money already, and that's why he's been obsessed with the JFK assassination for decades, @The New Holliday ?

What I think is some people in Hollywood have huge egos that need feedin. You know, why listen to the secret service agent who was there, instead of a known meathead who wasn't.
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
What I think is some people in Hollywood have huge egos that need feedin. You know, why listen to the secret service agent who was there, instead of a known meathead who wasn't.
Why do I post this stuff here? Because of my huge ego? Because I'm making money off of it? Rob Reiner has a huge ego? Soledad O'Brien has a huge ego?
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
If he had planned days earlier to not have the guy on the bumper, why was he on the bumper that day, riding along, and Kennedy was doing his thing, and THEN the guy got called off in the middle? Come on. That's a convenient explanation.
Right, because a vast conspiracy with a thousand moving parts isn't. What did the guy who allegedly called them off say? What was he saying in that video something like - Jack said backoff when we turn into the plaza so backoff? something like that?
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Right, because a vast conspiracy with a thousand moving parts isn't. What did the guy who allegedly called them off say? What was he saying in that video something like - Jack said backoff when we turn into the plaza so backoff? something like that?
Yeah, and the guy who was flipping put about it knew all about the plan but still decided to act like it was an insane move.
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Yeah, and the guy who was flipping put about it knew all about the plan but still decided to act like it was an insane move.
How do you know what he did and didn't know, or what he was reacting to. Oh wait - I know, because it's obvious.
.. What did he say about it later? Did he confirm or deny agent Hill's testimony? What was his name(?) - we'll look up what he had to say about it.
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Listen to that episode. 2 days after the assassination, Johnson and Hoover discussed the fact that the investigation had to show that Oswald was the killer. Come on. There are recordings of the calls between LBJ and JEH

Also, Reiner pretty fucking clearly lays out the motivation behind the conspiracy. CLEARLY.
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Church Committee hearings 1975. Reveal and document the CIA's history of assassinations and assassination attempts.

Zapruder film shows JFK was shot from the front.

Come the fuck on. I don't get how you twist the facts to fit the propaganda.
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Zapruder film shows JFK was shot from the front.
What? No it doesn't. I've seen several demonstrations of what happens when a bullet strikes a head-like object from the direction Kennedy was struck, and elsewhere linked you to a full professional analysis. The film CONFIRMS that he was struck from the rear, as did the acoustical analysis, and the testimony of people in and very close to the limo including agent Hill.

PS: the reason, which is well known and understood, why Johnson and particularly Hoover wanted it made clear (by the evidence) that Ozzie was the shooter is so there wasn't an international incident with the Rooskies who some immediately thought were to blame.
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
What? No it doesn't. I've seen several demonstrations of what happens when a bullet strikes a head-like object from the direction Kennedy was struck, and elsewhere linked you to a full professional analysis. The film CONFIRMS that he was struck from the rear, as did the acoustical analysis, and the testimony of people in and very close to the limo including agent Hill.

PS: the reason, which is well known and understood, why Johnson and particularly Hoover wanted it made clear (by the evidence) that Ozzie was the shooter is so there wasn't an international incident with the Rooskies who some immediately thought were to blame.
Do you think there is not a full professional analysis that comes up with the opposite conclusion? If you do, please think again.

Yeah, re Johnson and Hoover, obviously. But they didn't have enough evidence for that 2 days after the assassination, now, did they? They decided what was what, and, as I said, the Warren Commission was put together to "prove" he was the shooter, not to do a proper investigation.
 

Lily

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
46,240
Location
De donde me da la gana.
I don't know what to believe about the assassination. This could all be resolved if all evidence were released, without redacted material, to the American people. The fact that so much has been hidden and obfuscated casts doubt on the official story. The question is what is the government so afraid of? And why?
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Dr Carrico. The attending physician who intubated Kennedy before any other doctors arrived. Oh good.
Why would the other doctors not count with you? Seriously? I think they should ALL be considered. Anyone who was dealing with his wound.
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Why would the other doctors not count with you? Seriously? I think they should ALL be considered. Anyone who was dealing with his wound.
Why was Carrico left out, Lotus? Because he didn't fit the bs conspiracy theory? Of course not - because they got to him, threatened his family and his dog, till he fibbed..
 

The New Holliday

Now With 25% More Infinity
Site Supporter
Messages
2,285
Location
The Deep Space
Do you think there is not a full professional analysis that comes up with the opposite conclusion?
Nope There isn't. There's just kooky people who don't know the physics saying "AWWWW lookit dat, it's so obvious the shot came frum da grassy knoll". And do you know why people thought they heard a shot from that location? Because the white picket fence reflected (echo'd) the sound.
I had a recent experience of walking along a rock face adjacent to a waterfall - the sound reflecting off the wall made it seem the sound was coming from the rock. That's how that works. That was all in the analysis I linked - the way sound plays off objects and confuses the apparent origin of the sound...
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
Although collateral information from the overall investigation could narrow the choices for the number of bullets fired, as stand-alone primary evidence, an analysis of the recovered bullet fragments indicate that anywhere between two and five different rounds could have been fired. Moreover, the bullet fragments did not necessarily originate from the suspect rifle, a 6.5-mm Mannlicher-Carcano (MC) bolt-action carbine. The antimony compositions of the evidentiary specimens are consistent with any number of jacketed ammunitions that contain unhardened lead. This paper identifies flaws in the various analyses that have drawn firm conclusions about the number of bullets fired in the assassination event and that they came from the same rifle, i.e., the MC carbine with Oswald's palm print.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
OP
OP
LotusBud

LotusBud

Factory Bastard
Site Supporter ☠️
Messages
19,109
Location
Portugal
PS, I just want to say that I am sure while Rob Reiner was directing one wildly successful movie after another, he was saying to himself: I'm going to finally get really rich by making a podcast about JFK's assassination.